Trayvon Martin

[Seven77]

What happened to Trayvon could happen to anyone. It is not so much about race. However, did race play a role in this? Possibly.

While some people like Al Sharpton could be politicizing the incident as they are wont to do, I am glad to see the public awareness of this. George Zimmerman should have been detained and questioned at the very least. I personally signed the petition calling for his arrest-- as a Christian and a human being it is the least I can do.

Do other injustices happen in the world? Are they happening while these rallies for Trayvon are taking place? Unfortunately, yes of course, but does that mean we should not mourn the [b]one[/b]? As Christians, what affects one affects us all. We shouldn't [b]dare[/b] speak of this as excessive without making careful nuances and only when absolutely necessary.

[Era Might]

People in upscale neighborhoods seem to be the most paranoid people around. I sometimes go walking to the beach which is preceded by an upscale neighborhood, and everywhere you look there are security signs to indicate the house is protected. I actually had a confrontation with police in this neighborhood, who stopped me because (at least according to them) I was wearing a backpack and they supposedly had a lot of burglaries lately. What I really think happened was someone saw me taking photographs in their neighborhood (I carry a camera with me when I go walking) and they called the police. Before this incident I wouldn't have used the phrase "police state," but now I have no doubt we live in a police state. I was almost taken to jail for not wanting to show ID to someone who stops me and demands I produce identification (since when is walking down the street a crime?). We live in a different kind of police state than, say, the Soviet Union. We live in a police state where a young man walking down the streeet with skittles is shot dead by the neighborhood watch. Our police are the people next door; the boys in blue are just their deputies. Remember, "we're a nation of laws" as certain people like to remind us, and every man you see is a sheriff.

Edited March 23, 2012 by Era Might

[r2Dtoo]

[quote name='Seven77' timestamp='1332538528' post='2406573']What happened to Trayvon could happen to anyone. It is not so much about race. However, did race play a role in this? Possibly.[/quote]
Exactly. Would this guy really have gone outside to follow this kid if he had been white?

[quote]While some people like Al Sharpton could be politicizing the incident as they are wont to do, I am glad to see the public awareness of this. George Zimmerman should have been detained and questioned at the very least. I personally signed the petition calling for his arrest-- as a Christian and a human being it is the least I can do.[/quote]
That is not something I'm willing to do. How do I know what really happened? I can only judge this case by what I hear. If the Samford police know something that the rest of us don't that exconrates Zimmerman than they should release it. If they just let this simmer there's likely going to be race riots.

[Anomaly]

[quote name='Seven77' timestamp='1332538528' post='2406573']I personally signed the petition calling for his arrest-- as a Christian and a human being it is the least I can
[/quote]Statements like that are why I feel most Christians are para sprites. I see your subsequent qualifier, but too late for you to disqualify your sanctimony.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Seven77' timestamp='1332538528' post='2406573']
What happened to Trayvon could happen to anyone. It is not so much about race. However, did race play a role in this? Possibly.

While some people like Al Sharpton could be politicizing the incident as they are wont to do, I am glad to see the public awareness of this. George Zimmerman should have been detained and questioned at the very least. I personally signed the petition calling for his arrest-- as a Christian and a human being it is the least I can do.


[/quote]
Seven how do you know that the police didn't detain him and question him, and what qualifies any of us to demand he be arrested? I Somehow doubt if the man was given a free pass without an investigation.

[Anomaly]

7 is right Sanford police didn't detain Zimmerman, but FDLE andFBI, and Govenor appointed special prosecutor have not charged him. I believe most people are generally decent and will expect the people investigating will know more details than is convenient for the media to sell soap ads with.

[RezaMikhaeil]

[quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1332542175' post='2406619']
7 is right Sanford police didn't detain Zimmerman, but FDLE andFBI, and Govenor appointed special prosecutor have not charged him. I believe most people are generally decent and will expect the people investigating will know more details than is convenient for the media to sell soap ads with.
[/quote]

You can't detain someone against their will, suspending their liberty without cause. The bottomline is that the "stand your ground" laws of Floriday protect him. There have been numerous other situations identical to these and those individuals were not detained. This is a media circus because of his race and that is why this is getting so much attention.

The problem is that they are making it out to be black vs white. However the man that shot Treyvon Martin was not white. He is hispanic and comes from a multi-racial family. The media won't tell you that of course because people might change their mind on the racial motivation if that was the case.

[Anomaly]

[quote name='Era Might' timestamp='1332539592' post='2406590']
People in upscale neighborhoods seem to be the most paranoid people around. I sometimes go walking to the beach which is preceded by an upscale neighborhood, and everywhere you look there are security signs to indicate the house is protected. I actually had a confrontation with police in this neighborhood, who stopped me because (at least according to them) I was wearing a backpack and they supposedly had a lot of burglaries lately. What I really think happened was someone saw me taking photographs in their neighborhood (I carry a camera with me when I go walking) and they called the police. Before this incident I wouldn't have used the phrase "police state," but now I have no doubt we live in a police state. I was almost taken to jail for not wanting to show ID to someone who stops me and demands I produce identification (since when is walking down the street a crime?). We live in a different kind of police state than, say, the Soviet Union. We live in a police state where a young man walking down the streeet with skittles is shot dead by the neighborhood watch. Our police are the people next door; the boys in blue are just their deputies. Remember, "we're a nation of laws" as certain people like to remind us, and every man you see is a sheriff.
[/quote]Sorry about your luck, buy despite you grabbing the opportunity to flaunt your bias against people of a different race and higher income bracket

it wasn't that upscale. Mid to low middle class complex that was racially diverse. Zimmerman was Hispanic. Trayvons dad lived there. Interviews w other residents was mostly "minorities". It was clean and kept up. Gated communities have become popular and common here because people want to feel safe and comfortable in their neighborhood. Did you miss the part about the neighborhood watch they started because of frequent burglaries? It's one thing of being tolerant of sketchy 'hood when poor and single. It's another when you're trying to provide a safe environment for your family.

[4588686]

[quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1332505933' post='2406001']
Here in Tampa, it's been heavily covered. Quick synopsis:
Trayvon is a teen that was visiting his dad at a nice gated apartment / condo complex. There had been a rash of burglaries and they had organized a neighborhood watch. Zimmerman was a member of the neighborhood watch and was patrolling the neighborhood. He saw Trayvon, didn't recognize him, and started following him and called in to 911. Trayvon became aware he was being followed and called his girlfriend. Trayvon discussed that he pulled up his hoodie while trying to avoid whomever was following him (Zimmerman). At some point, there was a confrontation and a wrestling fight, Trayvon was shot. Trayvon was unarmed. It was legal for Zimmerman to carry a firearm, and it's legal to shoot if in a confrontation and you believe your safety is in danger, regardless whether the other person is armed.
Sanford police did not/has not charged Zimmerman with a crime, yet. There is discussion (that seems accurate) that Sanford's investigation was lacking. Zimmerman wasn't tested for alchol, the girlfriend wasn't interviewed after the shooting (she came forward days after with statement), phone records for timing of phone calls had not been checked. State of Florida directed our State Department of Law Enforcement (kinda like State FBI) to investigate the matter. A couple of days latter, due to media, the FBI joined the investigation. The Govenor has created a task force to investigate the matter.
Trayvon's family had immediately gone to the press and raised caine from the get-go, calling it a racial shooting. Zimmerman appears to be hispanic, and his family says his mother is hispanic. The complex appears middle class, racially diverse, like most average neighborhoods.
A young person is shot dead, it doesn't appear he was involved in any crime.
Zimmerman doesn't appear to be a complete kook, participating in an established neighborhood watch, and called 911 before the confrontation.

The problem is there are no eye witnesses to the confrontation. What actions and words were said, which party may have escalated the confrontation, if threats were made by either person before the shooting, etc.
We live in a Society of Laws. [b]Both[/b] Trayvon and Zimmerman should be considered innocent until proven guilty. However, the media has helped fan public opinion to the point of hysteria. Rev. Al was here inciting a gathering of hundreds of people. The Sanford police cheif has stepped aside from his job, but they want him charged with a crime. I heard the District Attorney wants to step down because of the publicity surrounding and the Govenor has assigned a special prosecuter, however, this is still being portrayed on the news as a racial incident, Zimmerman should be prosecuted, etc., etc.

In my opinion, I think public outcry against Zimmerman has reached beyond excessive. From what I've read and heard, it seems very possible that Zimmerman was wrong to confront Trayvon, but at what point would it be first or second degree murder, or man-slaughter if Zimmerman is guilty of a crime? I think political pressure is now to prosecute Zimmerman as harshly as possible, no matter what. I fear that the Government will over-step their ability to convict and prove their case and all hell will break loose from people who believe the entire incident was a racial attact by both Zimmerman and society.
[/quote]

He was told not to follow the kid. He outweighed the kid by at least 100 pounds. I don't care what happened. That kid was unarmed. There is no reason that this kid should be dead except that Zimmerman is a stupid floopy. I don't care if they hang his fat arse. I don't care for mob violence but there is no circumstance that I can imagine that esponges him of serious, criminal wrong doing. That boy is dead for no beaver dam good reason except that some fat, stupid floopy wanted to feel like a bad arse.

The sad thing is that this cretin may be within the law because of that stupid 'Stand your ground' law. I believe in the second Amendment and I grew up around guns. I learned to shoot a rifel when I was about 5-8. And not in a shooting range but on a back country road. Everybody in the southern half of my family own guns. I would own a gun if I lived in an unsafe area. And my family comes from a part of the south where there is little reach of law. People don't call the police. If you try to break into someone's home out in the country of Eastern North Carolina you're going to get shot, and then the police will be called. I have little problem with that culture. But that stupid law is a perfect example of what's wrong with the NRA. It is far to broad and paves the way for exactly stuff like this to happen. For some stupid floopy to chase down a unarmed teen minding his own business and then shot him when a fight ensues.

Edited March 24, 2012 by Hasan

[4588686]

[quote name='Era Might' timestamp='1332539592' post='2406590']
People in upscale neighborhoods seem to be the most paranoid people around. I sometimes go walking to the beach which is preceded by an upscale neighborhood, and everywhere you look there are security signs to indicate the house is protected. I actually had a confrontation with police in this neighborhood, who stopped me because (at least according to them) I was wearing a backpack and they supposedly had a lot of burglaries lately. What I really think happened was someone saw me taking photographs in their neighborhood (I carry a camera with me when I go walking) and they called the police. Before this incident I wouldn't have used the phrase "police state," but now I have no doubt we live in a police state. I was almost taken to jail for not wanting to show ID to someone who stops me and demands I produce identification (since when is walking down the street a crime?). We live in a different kind of police state than, say, the Soviet Union. We live in a police state where a young man walking down the streeet with skittles is shot dead by the neighborhood watch. Our police are the people next door; the boys in blue are just their deputies. Remember, "we're a nation of laws" as certain people like to remind us, and every man you see is a sheriff.
[/quote]

If the police are the deputies to the 'real' police who are actually all of our neighbors then that means that power is decentralized and dispersed amongst the population which is kind of the antithesis of a police state.

Edited March 24, 2012 by Hasan

[4588686]

[quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1332543890' post='2406634']
Sorry about your luck, buy despite you grabbing the opportunity to flaunt your bias against people of a different race and higher income bracket

it wasn't that upscale. Mid to low middle class complex that was racially diverse. Zimmerman was Hispanic. Trayvons dad lived there. Interviews w other residents was mostly "minorities". It was clean and kept up. Gated communities have become popular and common here because people want to feel safe and comfortable in their neighborhood. Did you miss the part about the neighborhood watch they started because of frequent burglaries? It's one thing of being tolerant of sketchy 'hood when poor and single. It's another when you're trying to provide a safe environment for your family.
[/quote]

I grew up in a neighborhood just like that only minus the gate. It means that whenever I went out running I carried a knife with me. Didn't mean I chased down and confronted every sketchy 'hood (I guess that's your euphemism for a skinny black kid carrying a bag of skittles) I saw. There is no excuse for what he did. He was not in danger. He had no reason to believe that this kid was a threat aside from the fact that he was black. He outweighed him by 100 pounds. There was no reason to feel threatened. He had no authority to confront anybody walking around on public land.

[RezaMikhaeil]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1332551766' post='2406728']
I grew up in a neighborhood just like that only minus the gate. It means that whenever I went out running I carried a knife with me. Didn't mean I chased down and confronted every sketchy 'hood (I guess that's your euphemism for a skinny black kid carrying a bag of skittles) I saw. There is no excuse for what he did. He was not in danger. He had no reason to believe that this kid was a threat aside from the fact that he was black. He outweighed him by 100 pounds. There was no reason to feel threatened. He had no authority to confront anybody walking around on public land.
[/quote]

Yes there is justification because the law gave it to him.

[4588686]

[quote name='RezaMikhaeil' timestamp='1332553885' post='2406772']
Yes there is justification because the law gave it to him.
[/quote]

There is absolutely no moral justification for this. As I said below in the post you were quoting, there may be legal justification. Although the bill's author claims that a situation like this shouldn't apply, it is possible that the ambiguous language will get him off. Which is why it is a flawed law.

[RezaMikhaeil]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1332553981' post='2406774']
There is absolutely no moral justification for this. As I said below in the post you were quoting, there may be legal justification. Although the bill's author claims that a situation like this shouldn't apply, it is possible that the ambiguous language will get him off. Which is why it is a flawed law.
[/quote]

When did I say that there was moral justification? The bills author may not have intended for there to be legal justification for such circumstances but he certainly didn't think about the ramifications before proposing such a ridiculous and I should note vague wording. The reality is that when we allow the government to pass laws to "protect us", sometimes they backfire.

[4588686]

[quote name='RezaMikhaeil' timestamp='1332554507' post='2406779']
When did I say that there was moral justification? The bills author may not have intended for there to be legal justification for such circumstances but he certainly didn't think about the ramifications before proposing such a ridiculous and I should note vague wording. The reality is that when we allow the government to pass laws to "protect us", sometimes they backfire.
[/quote]

I agree wholeheartedly.