Trayvon Martin

[RezaMikhaeil]

[quote name='Norseman82' timestamp='1332801552' post='2408891']
OK, I have to call you out on this one. You make this claim over and over again. Are you an attorney? Please cite the relevant case law, because I always was under the impression that disobeying a police officer could get you arrested.
[/quote]

I don't have to be an attorney to understand the law. However the 9-11 operator was not a police officer and was not giving a legal order. More importantly if it were a police officer and they were giving you orders or advice that went against your rights under the law, the law itself protects your right to disobey that police officer. IE: If a criminal was breaking into your home and a police officer ordered you not to defend yourself with lethal force, when it's your legal right under the law [castle doctrine] to protect yourself with lethal force. In many circumstances 9-11 operators have told victims of home intrusion to flee for their lives. Those individuals chose to stand their ground and shot and killed the perpetrators. They were never charge with disobeying a police officer or a 9-11 operator because what they did was not against the law.

[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1332806420' post='2408930']
And there was no order. Do read the available transcripts.
[/quote]

Another great point for those of us that actually heard the uncut transcripts. I should note that nearly all of the major news agencies that have trumped this case in the media have had to launch internal investigations into their reporting because it was not truthful. They all found that the 9-11 tapes presented were selectively edited to make Zimmerman out to be a racist. Much like Delivery Boy has. Those people are the true racists. [url="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/02/nbc-news-trayvon-martin-internal-investigation_n_1396442.html"]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/02/nbc-news-trayvon-martin-internal-investigation_n_1396442.html[/url]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' timestamp='1332835149' post='2409058']
Also people keep blaming the media. I agree the media is shady and I'm not a left wing person. Neither am I right. I hate politcs all together and I think its all scum. But in this case if it wasn't for the media we wouldn't know about this case and how bad the police department messed it up. And if you say they didn't it mess it up at all you're not being honest. Go look at the facts.[/quote] Everyone that you have been disagreeing with this entire time have been going by the facts. It's you that has yet to invoke a single fact here whatsoever.

[quote]They took Georges word that he had no prior offences. They didn't do research and find out the truth about him assulting an officer and domesitic disputes. They didn't take a drug or alcohol test.[/quote] That is not what happened. They had eye witness testimony that said that testified that George did not break the law. Additionally, there was no reason for them to test George for drug and alcohol. Those tests are not allowed to be given without probable cause to suspect. Such as wreckless driving common amongst intoxicated drivers.

[quote]They didn't interview Trayvons girlfriend who he was talking to up until the point he was murdered.[/quote] Again also not a fact. Trayvon Martin had hung up the phone at the time that the altercation had taken place. We also don't know if the girlfriend was being honest and truthful.

[quote]Its fact that his classmates and people who knew him loved him. And said he was a great kid. His mom said he still allowed both her and his father to kiss him in public. So he got busted with an empty bag of marijuana who cares. So he took pics with gold teeth and his p a n t s sagging. Who cares. That does nothing to show his character or make him a worse person.[/quote] What does show his charector is that on his facebook page, he was bragging about assaulting a bus driver. I'm not sure that the bus driver would have a favorable opinion of him after being punched in the face.

[quote]But that's exactly why his family put out the best stuff reflecting Trayvon right away. And let's be honest they never knew this would blow up the way it has. The reason it has is because people see the injustice and see how much the police department dropped the ball and just tried to cover this up and as George hoped and in his own words let it blow over.
[/quote] Trayvon Martin's Parents gave the media pictures that were over 5 years old in order to paint their son as this "innocent little boy that got shot". They did not give updated photos. Probably because there would be tattoos and the general public would not have believed that he was as innocent as they portrayed him to be in the first place.

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1332856350' post='2409122']
But what they DID do was interview an eyewitness who said there was a fight and the gun went off. Again you are assuming that the police did something wrong. You are assuming they are racist and incompetent and the truth is you haven't a clue, because police investigations are NOT matters of public record. So why don't you calm down until its over.
[/quote]

And what they have released shows that they acted properly. They even have allowed for numerous independant investigations into their operating proceedures that have also cleared them of such wrong doing.

[quote name='Delivery Boy' timestamp='1332942924' post='2409634']
Yo Winchester I wasn't yanking anyones chain with this thread. This story really left me heartbroken and filled with a lot of anger. Mabey it was because I kept seeing pics of him way younger. If so the media got me there. Also I won't argue I need medication. I've just never went to a doctor. I pry am bi polar. I guess I just grew up with a lot of "kinda" rracist and flat out racist people and since a young age I've always despised racism. I looked up collectivist in the dictionary but still am unsure what it means ? Fill me in. Peace brother.
[/quote]

Well nobody here was invoking race here but you. Your entire argument was racist by definition.

[quote name='Delivery Boy' timestamp='1333540494' post='2412823']
EagleEye I disagree. Trayvon was innocent in the fact he was walking home. He has no criminal record. Also he was profiled because he was black and in a hoodie. Listen to the 911 tape. I'm not saying zimmerman is racist but its pretty clear he profiled Trayvon.
[/quote]

The 911 tape that you were fed by the media is selectively edited. If you listen to the uncut versions there was no racial profiling involved whatsoever. Again GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT SON.

[Winchester]

[img]http://wishes.debian.co.nz/images/gallery//funny/deadhorse.jpg[/img]

[Jesus_lol]

oh wow, so i have been doing a whole bunch of investigation into this subject and i have got a shocking theory....


I BET IT WAS RACIALLY MOTIVATED!!!

I should sell this fresh take on the situation to the news or something

[Anomaly]

I feel like buying DB a baseball bat and a hoodie, and giving him a poster's address at this point.

[BG45]

Zimmerman's attorneys are on CNN saying they're withdrawing as his counsel. He's refused to take their calls since Sunday. He's ignored their advice consistently and tried to contact the special prosecutor's office directly...who refused to meet with him without counsel. He's also apparently tried to contact Fox News directly without consulting them. The attorneys feel they can no longer represent him as they refuse to say they're in contact with him every day when they aren't.

[Adrestia]

[quote name='BG45' timestamp='1334091405' post='2415490']
Zimmerman's attorneys are on CNN saying they're withdrawing as his counsel. He's refused to take their calls since Sunday. He's ignored their advice consistently and tried to contact the special prosecutor's office directly...who refused to meet with him without counsel. He's also apparently tried to contact Fox News directly without consulting them. The attorneys feel they can no longer represent him as they refuse to say they're in contact with him every day when they aren't.
[/quote]
The former lawyers said that Zimmerman told the prosecutors that there were only advisors, not his legal representation.

They also claim that Zimmerman has set up a new, second PayPal account for donations to his defense.

They seem to have legitimate reason to believe that he no longer wants them to represent him.

[BG45]

Yep, all of that...and apparently that he never mailed them back the retainer letter for once they went to court to retain them as counsel also. Makes me wonder if the man really is suffering the sort of psychological breakdown they implied.

[Adrestia]

[quote name='BG45' timestamp='1334106424' post='2415615']
Yep, all of that...and apparently that he never mailed them back the retainer letter for once they went to court to retain them as counsel also. Makes me wonder if the man really is suffering the sort of psychological breakdown they implied.
[/quote]Maybe he really was a shaken baby. Seriously, I wouldn't be surprised if he is being manipulated by people with bad intentions.

[Guest]

This whole thing is nuts.

[Guest]

This whole thing is nuts.

[Autumn Dusk]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' timestamp='1334109421' post='2415629']
This whole thing is nuts.
[/quote]

Certinally.

What seems not to be taken into consideration is two hot-headed men got into a fight, one brought a gun.

Why is it that in our media that people cheer this. NCIS, CSI, SVU, Bones, Castle even Indiana Jones. They ALL shoot at unarmed people, or have some civic hero shoot a bad guy and EVERYONE cheers.

It is horribly tragic that the young man ended up dead. But the more the media pushes for a lynch mob of Zimmerman the more I'm convinced that it really was an accident between two realtivly young men.

The poliece's hands were tied. Zimmerman was LEGALLY free due to the stand your ground law. He did not appear under the influence and had called 9-1-1.

The poliece should of been there much earlier. THAT was their mistake.

How soon we forget the Casey Anthoy trial. Their is a dead child with enough circumstantial evidence to convict on neglect charges, and to point to murder. HOWEVER the actual evidence was NOT THERE. So now we have a knowingly neglectful mother off scott free. We don't know that she murdered the little girl, but it's likely. But becuase the prosecution tried to prove something that couldn't be proved the chronic neglect goes unpunished.

Trayvon did not deserve to die. It is disgustingly sad. But we don't need to kill another man...or men for that matter. The worst is among the university students who are just getting over the Occupy croutons. I was afraid last week when a young black asked me if I was hispanic...I look like I could be a "white" hispanic. I wonder why he wanted to know...and what he wanted to do.

[Anomaly]

Killings, murders, shootings, and other tragedies happen every day in the US. Innocent people get raped, shot, and/or stapped while sleeping in their beds at night by monsters with no other agenda then their own evil gratification.

There is no denying that a tragedy occured in Sanford. However, it isn't so unique to have deserved such intense public scrutiny and debate. It just happened to get enough publicity and was spun in a controversial manner, and gained traction as a 'national issue'. As I feared when the publicity started, everything is blown out of proportion to the point no reasonable just outcome will ever prevail.

The tragedy isn't mostly about race, about Zimmerman being a complete racist monster or the Sanford police being complete racist incompentents or the State of Florida's SYG law creating a complete wild-west free-for-all.

It's possible (even likely) the entire tragedy is the culmination of relatively minor errors of judgement by George, Trayvon, Sanford Police, Trayvon's parents, and news agencies with their own perceptions of what happened.

If problems with Florida's SYG laws precludes pressing legal charges, George has been already judged guilty by many in the public arena, and the notoriety has effectively ruined his life.

Please know that an unoccupied Sanford police car was shot up while parked a few blocks from where the tragedy happened.

If charges are issued and George is found guilty, some will claim it was racial bias, and more public outrage will likely generate riots.

If charges are issued and George is found not guilty, some will claim it was racial bias, and more public outrage will likely generate riots.

If no charges are issued, some will claim it was racial bias, and more public outrage will likely generate riots.

George acknowledges he shot Trayvon. If he did it in complete self defense and it's proven in court, he, and his family are in danger for their lives. If he didn't do it in complete self defense and it's proven in court, he and his family are in danger for their lives.

George is obviously under extreme pressure with the national attention and strong public negative opinions on him. I can't imagine he can see any good outcome for him, or his family at this point, no matter what.

I'm afraid he's going to crack and commit suicide to take himself out of the equation, preventing riots, hopefully alleviating the threats to his family and friends, and possibly avoiding further deaths. Even Charles Manson and Timothy McVey weren't put into that position. That's not justice in a civilized society, even if George committed cold blooded murdered and shot Trayvon when he was sleeping in his bed.

Edited April 11, 2012 by Anomaly

[Autumn Dusk]

[quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1334162125' post='2415813']
I'm afraid he's going to crack and commit suicide to take himself out of the equation, preventing riots, hopefully alleviating the threats to his family and friends, and possibly avoiding further deaths. Even Charles Manson and Timothy McVey weren't put into that position. That's not justice in a civilized society, even if George committed cold blooded murdered and shot Trayvon when he was sleeping in his bed.
[/quote]

It's so sad. No one deserves to feel the weight of society's anarchy. Why aren't we up in arms about the marine who shot all those Afgans? Hispanic shoot black in Chicogo all the time. Two weeks ago they shot a 3yo girl when her uncle? used her as a body shield....over an innane argument about the sidewalk or some other nonsense. Where is the justice for that baby?

[Guest]

People are upset cause there was no arrest in this case and in Georges own words "I thought it would blow over." Now if hes really innocent and gets found not guilty then he deserves to live a normal life. Although I'm aware that won't happen. If and I know it might be a big if. But if he SHOULD of been arrested that night and at least went to trial it would of made his life a lot easier. There wouldn't be this outrage and all the hate. Then he could of been found guilty or not guilty and his life would of been somewhat normal. So if the invesitagtor WAS right and he should have been arrested and the prosecuter let him off for whatever reason then that's sad. Cause he caused zimmerman way more probelms in the long run.

[Guest]

When I say I'm aware that won't happen I mean if he's found innocent he will be able to live a normal life. I didn't mean that I'm aware it won't happen as in he won't be found not guilty.