DojoGrant Posted May 6, 2004 Share Posted May 6, 2004 Hey all, I'm thinking of writing an in-depth treatise on contraception, citing Scripture, encyclicals (namely Humanae Vitae) and Church Fathers. What is striking me particularly is the fact that almost everyone (who is open to the Holy Spirit) who sees that contraception is inherently wrong, will become Catholic. If contraception is in fact sinful, and the Catholic Church is the only major Christian body (visible) that condemns it as offensive to God, how can it possibly not be a Church ordained by God? The devil cannot fight himself and expect to win, so if the devil is behind the Catholic Church, the devil is fighting against himself by proclaiming the evils of contraception. And if a person is inclined to believe that contraception is evil, then that person will naturally be inclined to follow the Catholic Church. Anyway, pray for me as I think about this and hopefully write it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hananiah Posted May 6, 2004 Share Posted May 6, 2004 Good luck and God bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 Any updates for us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_rev Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 I'll pray for you that God will help you write this for his honor and glory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DojoGrant Posted May 17, 2004 Author Share Posted May 17, 2004 I haven't had a chance to start on it yet (its a summer project), but I have reread Humanae Vitae to get me started on it. Thanks for the prayers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 First, let me start off by saying that the first thing I did except was the Church's teaching on contraception... However, I am not so sure that Catholics are the only ones to openly teach against contraception. I believe, and I could be totally wrong here, but Mennonites also teach against contraception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulls Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 "The devil cannot fight himself and expect to win, so if the devil is behind the Catholic Church, the devil is fighting against himself by proclaiming the evils of contraception. And if a person is inclined to believe that contraception is evil, then that person will naturally be inclined to follow the Catholic Church." I don't agree with this logic. If the Catholic church is the one church ordained by God, than Protestant churches must be of the devil. But since the devil cannot fight against himself, how could the devil be behind churches that proclaim the evils homosexuality (using just one example). And if in fact the Catholic church is the only one to actually fight against contraception, i don't think that being different one doctrine alone, which does not even relate to salvation, is enough to discern Catholicism as The Truth. Just my opinions, and I would like to see your work on this subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 [quote name='mulls' date='May 17 2004, 11:31 AM'] I don't agree with this logic. If the Catholic church is the one church ordained by God, than Protestant churches must be of the devil. But since the devil cannot fight against himself, how could the devil be behind churches that proclaim the evils homosexuality (using just one example). [/quote] I wouldn't go so far to say that Protestant churches are of the devil. But they ARE man-made. It doesn't automatically mean they're bad or that everything they teach is false, though. [quote]And if in fact the Catholic church is the only one to actually fight against contraception, i don't think that being different one doctrine alone, which does not even relate to salvation, is enough to discern Catholicism as The Truth.[/quote] For centuries all Protestant denominations taught that contraception was evil. It wasn't until 1930 that that started to change. So either God changed his mind and the Catholic Church somehow never picked up on that, or it was always ok but God allowed Christians to be in the dark about it for centuries, or it was always wrong but Protestants couldn't see that. I find the 3rd one to be the most likely scenario. As for the doctrine on contraception not relating to salvation, it actually does. Using contraception is objectively gravely evil, and when done with full knowledge of its evil and full consent of the will, it's a mortal sin. Unrepented mortal sin will send a soul to hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulls Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 [quote name='Dave' date='May 17 2004, 11:49 AM'] For centuries all Protestant denominations taught that contraception was evil. It wasn't until 1930 that that started to change. So either God changed his mind and the Catholic Church somehow never picked up on that, or it was always ok but God allowed Christians to be in the dark about it for centuries, or it was always wrong but Protestants couldn't see that. I find the 3rd one to be the most likely scenario. As for the doctrine on contraception not relating to salvation, it actually does. Using contraception is objectively gravely evil, and when done with full knowledge of its evil and full consent of the will, it's a mortal sin. Unrepented mortal sin will send a soul to hell. [/quote] [quote]For centuries all Protestant denominations taught that contraception was evil. It wasn't until 1930 that that started to change[/quote] didn't know that. interesting. [quote]So either God changed his mind and the Catholic Church somehow never picked up on that, or it was always ok but God allowed Christians to be in the dark about it for centuries, or it was always wrong but Protestants couldn't see that. I find the 3rd one to be the most likely scenario.[/quote] obviously the first premise is wrong, God doesn't change his mind. The third may be likely, but wouldn't you mean that rather then protestants not being able to see it, they were instead somehow blinded to it after 1930, as you stated earlier? and can you please elaborate on the second premise a bit more? it was always ok, but God allowed Christians to be in the dark about.....what exactly? [quote]Using contraception is objectively gravely evil, and when done with full knowledge of its evil and full consent of the will, it's a mortal sin.[/quote] I would imagine that most Christians who use contraception (condoms to be specific) are unaware that it is evil, or else they obviously would not use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 [quote name='mulls' date='May 17 2004, 02:40 PM'] obviously the first premise is wrong, God doesn't change his mind. The third may be likely, but wouldn't you mean that rather then protestants not being able to see it, they were instead somehow blinded to it after 1930, as you stated earlier? [/quote] Yeah, that's what I meant. Sorry for not making things more clear. [quote]and can you please elaborate on the second premise a bit more? it was always ok, but God allowed Christians to be in the dark about.....what exactly?[/quote] In the second premise, I put forth the false scenario that God always considered contraception morally ok but that until 1930 He'd allowed all Christians to remain in the dark and to think it was wrong when it was really not. But of course, God wouldn't leave people in the dark about its rightness or wrongness for so long. [quote]I would imagine that most Christians who use contraception (condoms to be specific) are unaware that it is evil, or else they obviously would not use it.[/quote] It would seem that way. But of course, only God would truly know if a given person was morally culpable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulls Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 can you find me some info on the protestant teachings before 1930 thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulls Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 by the way i'm completely open to the fact that the Church may have this issue totally right. as of right now, being only 21 with no future-wifey-to-be in sight, it's not something i have to deal with in my life for the moment. but when that day comes, this is an issue that me and wifey will take very seriously, with a lot of prayer and seeking for discernment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulls Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 (edited) double double post post Edited May 17, 2004 by mulls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 Ok, Mulls, here are some quotes from Protestants about birth control: "The voluntary spilling of semen outside of intercourse between man and woman is a monstrous thing. Deliberately to withdraw from coitus in order that semen may fall on the ground is doubly monstrous. For this is to extinguish the hope of the race and to kill before he is born the hoped-for offspring." John Calvin "Although it is very easy to marry a wife, it is very difficult to support her along with the children and the household. Accordingly, no one notices this faith of Jacob. Indeed, many hate fertility in a wife for the sole reason that the offspring must be supported and brought up. For this is what they commonly say: 'Why should I marry a wife when I am a pauper and a beggar? I would rather bear the burden of poverty alone and not load myself with misery and want.' But his blame is unjustly fastened on marriage and fruitfulness. Indeed, you are indicting your unbelief by distrusting God's goodness, and you are bringing greater misery upon yourself by disparaging God's blessing. For if you had trust in God's grace and promises, you would undoubtedly be supported. But because you do not hope in the Lord, you will never prosper." Martin Luther, Luther's Works, Vol. 5, p.332 "Onan, though he consented to marry the widow, yet to the great abuse of his own body, of the wife he had married, and the memory of his brother that was gone, he refused to raise up seed unto his brother. Those sins that dishonour the body are very displeasing to God, and the evidence of vile actions. Observe, the thing which he did displeased the Lord--And it is to be feared, thousands, especially of single persons, by this very thing, still displease the Lord, and destroy their own souls. " John Wesley, Commentary on Genesis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 DojoGrant's assertion is merely that if one sees that the Catholic Church is the only Christian Church that has really stuck by True Christian Morality on this issue and not swayed by society's pressures, then they will be more inclined to believe the Catholic Church is the one that will not be defeated by the gates of hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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