Is The Devil Stronger Than Mankind?

[Kia ora]

In my opinion, The Hunchback of Notre Dame has the best villain song that Disney ever made. It's called [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyS3weMlxLA"]Hellfire[/url].

In it, Judge Frollo claims that he's not to blame for being a lustful creepy pervert because 'it's not my fault/if in God's plan/he made the Devil so much stronger than a man'. Is it true that the Devil is 'stronger' in some sense than humans? What do you think?

[size=2]Theology questions from Disney movies. Yeah, I went there.[/size]

Edited March 15, 2012 by Kia ora

[blacksheep]

Well..they are fallen angels so they have a stronger influence on us...we are just humans after all, but with God's help we are able to overcome it! That whole movie is one of the best Disney has ever pushed out of its studios. Wasn't Frollo a bishop in the book? can't remember the story too well...

[Hubertus]

Man's own fallen nature itself is stronger than his ability to do good. So if by saying, "It's not my fault, the devil is stronger than me," he's putting blame on the devil for the fact that he sins at all, then he's laying blame on the wrong person, since we are perfectly capable of sinning on our own, and will without God's grace. But if he's saying that it's because of the devil that he's turned out to be such a terrible sinner, well I think the devil does have more influence over that. Once we take the initial step, I think the devil steps in and tries to drag us down as far as possible, all the way down to Hell. That's the way I understand it, anyway.

[CatherineM]

The devil is only stronger when we let him be.

[Tally Marx]

What Catherine said.

The song is like me complaining that a horse beat me in a race, because it ran faster....when I had a perfectly good race car at my disposal. It makes no sense to blame Satan for your sin, when if you had gone to God like you were supposed to, he never would have "won".

And if you will sin and sinful thoughts, then that is your fault. Satan has no direct influence on our wills, because we have free will. Since sin is only present if you used said free will to do something sinful, no, Satan cannot force us to sin. He gets the best of us only when we let him. In this sense he is not "stronger" than we are. Our will is just as free as his.



Edited: for spelling

Edited March 15, 2012 by Tally Marx

[Nihil Obstat]

By nature the devil and his angels are 'stronger' than us, but we are never ourselves alone. It would be misleading to compare human strength to demon strength, because human strength is very little, but always augmented by God. In a sense it's irrelevant whether or not humans are weaker than demons, because human strength is never present without divine aid.

[BarbTherese]

Satan was and is the most intelligent of all the angels and probably more intelligent than any human being - speaking strictly of "intelligence" that is. However, in Grace we are in Christ - and nothing greater, stronger etc. on any level whatsoever than Jesus, Truly Man and Truly God. Satan cannot force us nor "make" us do anything at all, it can only tempt us -and I try never to underestimate the power of temptation nor the intelligence of Satan and its wiles - while not afraid.
If one reads the Book of Job, the opening paragraphs reveal that before Satan can launch its attack on Job, it must ask permission of God to do so.

[quote]
Once we take the initial step, I think the devil steps in and tries to drag us down as far as possible, all the way down to Hell. [/quote]

Good observation I thought. Convincing many that it does not exist, plus the phrase "its only a venial sin" are two of probably the most insidious wiles of Satan in its unending goal to take as many to Hell as it can.

Edited March 19, 2012 by BarbaraTherese

[tinytherese]

It doesn't matter if the devil is stronger or not. What does matter is that God is the strongest of all and He is on our side.

[beatitude]

I think Tinytherese's answer is the best.

Human beings, however flawed and damaged we might be and whatever scrapes we might get ourselves into, also have a brilliant capacity to love. The devil gave that up. Julian of Norwich said of the crucified Christ, "Love was his meaning." In that display of human vulnerability and weakness and sacrifice we view divine love at its strongest, and that same love has blessed our own weak human condition. The devil has got nothing on that.

[BarbTherese]

[b][quote][u]Catholic Catechism[/u][/b]
[b]407[/b] The doctrine of original sin, closely connected with that of redemption by Christ, provides lucid discernment of man's situation and activity in the world. By our first parents' sin, the devil has acquired a certain domination over man, even though man remains free[color=#ff0000]. Original sin entails "captivity under the power of him who thenceforth had the power of death, that is, the devil".[sup][size=2]298[/size][/sup] Ignorance of the fact that man has a wounded nature inclined to evil [/color]gives rise to serious errors in the areas of education, politics, social action[sup][size=2]299[/size][/sup] and [u][b]morals[/b][/u].
[b]408[/b] The consequences of original sin and of all men's personal sins put the world as a whole in the sinful condition aptly described in St. John's expression, "the sin of the world".[sup][size=2]300[/size][/sup] This expression can also refer to the negative influence exerted on people by communal situations and social structures that are the fruit of men's sins.[sup][size=2]301[/size][/sup]
[b]409[/b] [color=#ff0000]This dramatic situation of "the whole world [which] is in the power of the evil one"[sup][size=2]302[/size][/sup] makes man's life a battle: [/color]
[color=#ff0000]The whole of man's history has been the story of dour combat with the powers of evil, stretching, so our Lord tells us, from the very dawn of history until the last day. Finding himself in the midst of the battlefield man has to struggle to do what is right, and it is at great cost to himself, and aided by God's grace, that he succeeds in achieving his own inner integrity [/quote][/color]


The power of Satan is not greater than God's Grace, which asks that we co-operate with that Grace, but it is foolhardy IMO to underestimate Satan, its intelligence and absolute vigilance in its quest which is the damnation of souls, and our own "wounded nature inclined to evil" (see 407 above) and that "the whole world is in the power of the evil one" (see 409 above)

We have only to reflect on WWII to insight the horror and suffering, evil, that can come about through man's "wounded nature inclined to evil" and that this horror and even earlier horrors in our history speak to "the whole of man's history has been the story of dour combat with the powers of evil, stretching, so Our Lord tells us. from the very dawn of history until the last day" (see 409 above)

And in our own day there is the tragedies and human conflict in the middle east and in the danger North Korea presents to world peace. We can reflect too on the terrible suffering of refugees in various parts of our world.

There is the continual uncertainty and risk, suffering and death, presented by the continuing horror of terrorism.

These are not the moral lapses and sinfulness of those who are "not me" and far from me and my moral responsibilities, lapses - rather of "all men's personal sins" (see 408 above)

[u][b]Pope Benedict: "Church must fear her member's sins"[/b][/u] [url="http://www.zenit.org/article-33964?l=english"]http://www.zenit.org...33964?l=english[/url]

[quote[]VATICAN CITY, DEC. 9, 2011 ([url="http://www.zenit.org/"]Zenit.org[/url]).- Benedict XVI says[color=#ff0000] the only threat[/color] the Church should fear is the sin of her members.
The Pope made this observation Thursday, the feast of the Immaculate Conception, at a traditional ceremony for the feast in Piazza di Spagna at the foot of the monument to Our Lady there.
"The only threat the Church can and must fear is the sin of her members," he said. "While, in fact, Mary is the Immaculate, free from every stain of sin, the Church is holy, but at the same time she is stained by our sins. [/quote]

Edited March 26, 2012 by BarbaraTherese