fides' Jack Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Seriously, though - I'm concerned about the economy, but I personally believe there isn't a form of government or structure of economy that would solve every problem. In the end, the people with the power make the rules, and the more inclined to positive morality a society is, the better off it will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted March 19, 2012 Author Share Posted March 19, 2012 [quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1332181360' post='2403983'] The tendency with hard money has been to gain in value. Part of the rise in gold prices would probably be due to the drop in value of the dollar. You might lose "dollars", but the gold will remain currency barring a disaster of such proportions that you'll only care about killing zombies, anyway. [/quote] Sure, I don't think that Gold is a bad thing to invest in. I just don't think it's a good idea to invest a lot of money that you need in it, particularly when its rise as been so dramatic for so long. I like Buffet's though experiment about gold and thinks it illustrates a useful point: although individuals like Ron Paul say that only gold is 'real money' as opposed to fiat currency, the truth is that neither are intrinsically valuable. One is paper and the other is a shiny rock. I don't see anything intrinsically safe about gold and really the fact that's it's been doing so well for so long makes me nervous. I listen to talk radio a lot and all I hear is how great gold is and how you should have gotten in sooner but that's ok because it is still not too late. And I've been hearing this for years. Everyone seems to want gold because it promises to quickly and steadily increase your money. Why? It's a rock. It has no real value other than the expectation that others will value it in the future for whatever reason. It just doesn't smell right. As they say: 'If it seems too good to be true then it probably is.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 I'll take the broad tide of human history for 500, Alex. Paper money loses value and has a much shorter life than gold. No, I wouldn't put money into gold that I need. That's the idea behind money, to trade for what you'd rather have. Gold would be a long term investment. It might be a bubble, but it's not going to completely devalue, barring a change that would likewise leave all your other money totally worthless (and that would occur much more easily than complete value loss in gold). Gold is accepted as money without violence. It takes violence to insure the acceptance of fiat currency. The government had to threaten us in order to get us to quit using the Spanish silver dollar. Precious metals have a history of becoming the dominant currency, so it's much safer to stockpile them instead of paper legal tender, which does not grow in worth over time. As production increases, the stock of precious metal will tend to not keep up, thus becoming more valuable in relation to the other products around. Gold isn't a great way now to get rich, but since investment is necessary given our monetary policy, one might as well purchase gold (at least in part). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted March 20, 2012 Author Share Posted March 20, 2012 [quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1332191467' post='2404129'] I'll take the broad tide of human history for 500, Alex. Paper money loses value and has a much shorter life than gold. No, I wouldn't put money into gold that I need. That's the idea behind money, to trade for what you'd rather have. Gold would be a long term investment. It might be a bubble, but it's not going to completely devalue, barring a change that would likewise leave all your other money totally worthless (and that would occur much more easily than complete value loss in gold). Gold is accepted as money without violence. It takes violence to insure the acceptance of fiat currency. The government had to threaten us in order to get us to quit using the Spanish silver dollar. Precious metals have a history of becoming the dominant currency, so it's much safer to stockpile them instead of paper legal tender, which does not grow in worth over time. As production increases, the stock of precious metal will tend to not keep up, thus becoming more valuable in relation to the other products around. Gold isn't a great way now to get rich, but since investment is necessary given our monetary policy, one might as well purchase gold (at least in part). [/quote] I don't understand how gold is currency without violence. From the quick research that I did it seems that gold was established as a currency precisely because expanding states needed some universalized medium of exchange to replace the prior, local economic orders, composed of gift-economies, which depend on local networks of trust and reciprocity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1332203601' post='2404210'] I don't understand how gold is currency without violence. From the quick research that I did it seems that gold was established as a currency precisely because expanding states needed some universalized medium of exchange to replace the prior, local economic orders, composed of gift-economies, which depend on local networks of trust and reciprocity. [/quote] Certainly government took control of gold, used minting as a means of debasing the currency (and thereby obtained the benefits of inflation), but gold was not developed as currency under legal tender laws. Absent force, currencies develop on their own. Tobacco served as currency, for a time, in the US. Government intervention is not needed for people to figure out what commodity is commonly desired enough to simplify trade. Edited March 20, 2012 by Winchester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RezaMikhaeil Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 [quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1332177830' post='2403941'] I don't understand how can gold not be a bubble right now. Maybe it's not, I don''t know. But all the hype reminds my of what everyone was saying about housing before 2008. [/quote] There is no "gold bubble", if you understood economic and monetary policy, you'd know this much. If you compare gold against the dollar, it is going up because the dollar is being inflated. This is because more paper dollars are being produced, decreasing their value. If you compare the dollar against the Swiss Franc, it will also appear that the Franc is going up but it's not. It's only going up with regards to devalued currencies. If you compare the dollar vs gold, it's at an all time high but if you compare gold to the franc, it's not. This is why the Greenspan and Bernanke are liars and QE3 hurts everyone, not just the rich. As a matter of fact devaluing of a currecy hurts the poor MORE THEN THE RICH. [quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1332181360' post='2403983'] The tendency with hard money has been to gain in value. Part of the rise in gold prices would probably be due to the drop in value of the dollar. You might lose "dollars", but the gold will remain currency barring a disaster of such proportions that you'll only care about killing zombies, anyway. [/quote] Actually this explains alot of the rise in gold prices. If the dollar bills were no longer printed after today, immediately it would make gains against gold. In the last 5 years, whenever the press has said, "gold took a hit today", it immediately recoved with huge gains by the late evening. This is because monetary policy in the united states sets the tone for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 (edited) I wish I knew more about economics. I've read things here and there from a variety of perspectives over the years and it all seems like wonky bovine manure at this point. Economics is a fairy tale for grown ups! Jk, but I definitely don't feel any particular enthusiasm about this or that school. A field plagued by pseudoscience? Mayhaps. I don't know enough about it personally. Edited March 25, 2012 by Laudate_Dominum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted March 25, 2012 Author Share Posted March 25, 2012 [quote name='Laudate_Dominum' timestamp='1332651728' post='2407738'] I wish I knew more about economics. I've read things here and there from a variety of perspectives over the years and it all seems like wonky bovine manure at this point. Economics is a fairy tale for grown ups! Jk, but I definitely don't feel any particular enthusiasm about this or that school. A field plagued by pseudoscience? Mayhaps. I don't know enough about it personally. [/quote] [url="http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Political-Economics-Making-Post-2008/dp/0415428882"]http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Political-Economics-Making-Post-2008/dp/0415428882[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 [quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1332652279' post='2407748'] [url="http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Political-Economics-Making-Post-2008/dp/0415428882"]http://www.amazon.co...8/dp/0415428882[/url] [/quote] Looking at it on amazon, google books, and goodreads. I like it. Thanks boss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted March 25, 2012 Author Share Posted March 25, 2012 [quote name='Laudate_Dominum' timestamp='1332652562' post='2407751'] Looking at it on amazon, google books, and goodreads. I like it. Thanks boss. [/quote] Just doing my job, sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now