Nihil Obstat Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 [quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1331929666' post='2401949'] I would assume you are investing in gold, Winnie. [/quote] Now's a decent time to buy, too. I'm invested a bit in a company that's like 99.5% gold assets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 [quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1331929666' post='2401949'] Enlightenting read on the link you provided. Makes me realize why none of the primary candidates are seriously addressing the economy. Allthough, with the world economic woes, I don't think they really have viable political options to address our national economy. I would assume you are investing in gold, Winnie. [/quote] I should be, but I'm not. I need to take a more active role in my retirement accounts, but I'm rather a dreadful businessman. I'm a wage type person. Someone put me onto Rothbard a year or so ago. I ruined me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RezaMikhaeil Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 [quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1331929666' post='2401949'] I would assume you are investing in gold, Winnie. [/quote] He should but not just him... everyone here in order to stablize their money. Having said that, don't limit yourself just to gold. Silver went up over 100% last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 (edited) That's actually what I'm likely to purchase. The razzle dazzle thing is, you can invest simply by purchasing. And holding it yourself. Perhaps a desire to save in this manner will destroy that great evil of employment: benefits in place of wages. Edited March 17, 2012 by Winchester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 If y'all are interested in investing in gold without holding the physical asset, and without paying storage fees, check out Central Gold Trust. They have a large vault where they keep all their gold, and the physical gold is actually labelled and allotted to shareholders. You can go look if you're in their area. Company is something like 99% gold, a bit of gold certificates, and a very small bit of cash. I think they have a sister company that does the same for silver, but I can't recall the name. Symbol is GTU or GTU.UN on the exchanges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1331994790' post='2402334'] If y'all are interested in investing in gold without holding the physical asset, and without paying storage fees, check out Central Gold Trust. They have a large vault where they keep all their gold, and the physical gold is actually labelled and allotted to shareholders. You can go look if you're in their area. Company is something like 99% gold, a bit of gold certificates, and a very small bit of cash. I think they have a sister company that does the same for silver, but I can't recall the name. Symbol is GTU or GTU.UN on the exchanges. [/quote] [img]http://www.hrneurope.com/uploads/avatar/HRN-Europe-Gringotts_Head_Goblin1.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 [quote] Once again, investors are reacting to the uncertainty in the stock market by investing in gold. Since the third quarter of 2010, the price of gold has jumped 40%, peaking at just over $1,900 an ounce. [b]The “experts†are touting gold as the only “safe†investment in a volatile market. [/b] So is now the time to buy gold? No way! Think about it: [b]Why would you buy something at its all-time high?[/b] From 1833 to 2001, the compound growth rate of gold was 1.54%. Since September 11, gold has made record returns, averaging close to 16% a year. [b]The gains that gold has made in the last 10 years can't make up for nearly two centuries of poor performance.[/b] There's nowhere to go but down—and history supports that. Many people invest in gold out of fear. Think about how the value of gold has gone up as uncertainty in world economies has increased. With the ever-changing values of world currencies, some people see gold as more stable. But that's just not the case. Today, like most commodities, the price of gold is driven by supply and demand, as well as speculation. The ongoing high political drama over the nation’s debt and the media-driven spirit of fear have also encouraged this recent spike in gold prices. When prices are driven to artificial lows or highs out of fear and greed, investors create a bubble. And bubbles will always burst. Investing is not buying something based on fear or greed. At best, investing in gold is speculation. And, at worst, it's gambling. [b]So investing in gold is a bad idea, but selling it is not![/b] Now is a great time to capitalize on the inflated prices and sell your unused gold and silver. Open up your old jewelry box and pull out those pieces you will never wear again. Use that money for your emergency fund, dumping debt, or investing in a good mutual fund.[/quote]Did a little research into investing in Gold. My concerns were the recent spike in prices when viewing the price of gold for the last 30 years. Most recommendations are to limit 5 to 10% of your investment funds in gold (if at all). The above comment from Dave Ramsey confirms my opinion that the price of Gold is probably a bubble, driven by speculation of the horrible world economy. It's very possible you could lose badly. Nevertheless, it's still very apparent that economic woes are due to government manipulation of the money system for their own short term political purposes and goals, with little to no real concern about what is better in the long-term for the average citizen. It's very evident from history (read the link Winchester provided) that the more Government takes over the economy (for "central planning") the worse it is for fair and equitable trade and the general populace suffers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted March 19, 2012 Author Share Posted March 19, 2012 [quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1332166868' post='2403842'] Did a little research into investing in Gold. My concerns were the recent spike in prices when viewing the price of gold for the last 30 years. Most recommendations are to limit 5 to 10% of your investment funds in gold (if at all). The above comment from Dave Ramsey confirms my opinion that the price of Gold is probably a bubble, driven by speculation of the horrible world economy. It's very possible you could lose badly. Nevertheless, it's still very apparent that economic woes are due to government manipulation of the money system for their own short term political purposes and goals, with little to no real concern about what is better in the long-term for the average citizen. It's very evident from history (read the link Winchester provided) that the more Government takes over the economy (for "central planning") the worse it is for fair and equitable trade and the general populace suffers. [/quote] I don't understand how can gold not be a bubble right now. Maybe it's not, I don''t know. But all the hype reminds my of what everyone was saying about housing before 2008. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 (edited) Here's Gary North talking about the idea of a gold bubble. "I suggest that you take a look at the price of gold in these other currencies. If you do, you will find that there has been a general movement upward in the price of gold in all of these currencies. The parallel, currency by currency, to the rise in the price of gold in the United States dollar is visible. You can see for yourself the rise in the price of gold is an international phenomenon. It is not due simply to the policies of the Federal Reserve System. Only to the extent that the central banks of those other nations have followed the same policies of the Federal Reserve can it be argued that the upward pressure on the price of gold is due to the Federal Reserve. If this is the case, then the other central banks are simply following the lead of the Federal Reserve. This is what I think has been going on." "I think we are seeing a loss of faith internationally in the reliability of the decision-makers of the nations' central banks. Around the world, investors have begun to conclude that their domestic central banks are likely to inflate, and therefore the future purchasing power of their domestic currencies is at risk. A growing number of investors have decided that it is better to unload their domestic currencies and to substitute ownership of gold in some form." "Anyone who argues that gold is in a bubble is arguing that this bubble is international. If it were not international, the price of gold would be rising in terms of the United States dollar, but it would not be rising in terms of other foreign currencies. Yet we have seen that the price of gold and foreign currencies has risen. So, if this is a bubble, it is being caused by central bank policies, not simply the policy of the Federal Reserve System. If this is a bubble, then it is an internationally engineered bubble. [font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]This is why I do not believe that we are seeing a bubble in gold. The rise in the price of gold is not simply the result of Federal Reserve policies. When we look for a bubble, we must begin with Federal Reserve policy. When we look for an international bubble, we should look at Federal Reserve policy that has been imitated by central banks in other nations."[/font] Edited March 19, 2012 by Nihil Obstat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted March 19, 2012 Author Share Posted March 19, 2012 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1332178300' post='2403944'] Here's Gary North talking about the idea of a gold bubble. "I suggest that you take a look at the price of gold in these other currencies. If you do, you will find that there has been a general movement upward in the price of gold in all of these currencies. The parallel, currency by currency, to the rise in the price of gold in the United States dollar is visible. You can see for yourself the rise in the price of gold is an international phenomenon. It is not due simply to the policies of the Federal Reserve System. Only to the extent that the central banks of those other nations have followed the same policies of the Federal Reserve can it be argued that the upward pressure on the price of gold is due to the Federal Reserve. If this is the case, then the other central banks are simply following the lead of the Federal Reserve. This is what I think has been going on." "I think we are seeing a loss of faith internationally in the reliability of the decision-makers of the nations' central banks. Around the world, investors have begun to conclude that their domestic central banks are likely to inflate, and therefore the future purchasing power of their domestic currencies is at risk. A growing number of investors have decided that it is better to unload their domestic currencies and to substitute ownership of gold in some form." "Anyone who argues that gold is in a bubble is arguing that this bubble is international. If it were not international, the price of gold would be rising in terms of the United States dollar, but it would not be rising in terms of other foreign currencies. Yet we have seen that the price of gold and foreign currencies has risen. So, if this is a bubble, it is being caused by central bank policies, not simply the policy of the Federal Reserve System. If this is a bubble, then it is an internationally engineered bubble. [font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]This is why I do not believe that we are seeing a bubble in gold. The rise in the price of gold is not simply the result of Federal Reserve policies. When we look for a bubble, we must begin with Federal Reserve policy. When we look for an international bubble, we should look at Federal Reserve policy that has been imitated by central banks in other nations."[/font] [/quote] Interesting. I found this as a counterpoint: [url="http://www.forbes.com/sites/feeonlyplanner/2011/08/28/gold-bubble-or-not/"]http://www.forbes.com/sites/feeonlyplanner/2011/08/28/gold-bubble-or-not/[/url] I wish everybody here who has invested in gold all the best with it. I just personally have a bad feeling about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 (edited) It is anybody’s guess when gold will correct, but it is very likely that it will be ugly when it does. [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1332178300' post='2403944'] [font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]This is why I do not believe that we are seeing a bubble in gold. The rise in the price of gold is not simply the result of Federal Reserve policies. When we look for a bubble, we must begin with Federal Reserve policy. When we look for an international bubble, we should look at Federal Reserve policy that has been imitated by central banks in other nations."[/font] [/quote]Read that link provided by Winnie. It clearly shows how nation's money policies can inflate the price of gold. Internationally, they are all doing the same thing, simply printing more money to pay for expansive government spending. That agrees with the quotes you provided. Printing money by Nations or other Central Banks is not a new phenomenon, nor are the problems associated with it. However, the fact that EVERYBODY is doing it is new, with the same old inflationary paper to specie (gold) results. Excerpt from Hasan's Forbes link: [quote] Even if gold doesn’t unambiguously qualify as a bubble, it is likely that price drops will be drastic when investors shift back into more sustainable investments. The sheer size of the gold ETF virtually guarantees that sellers will not be able to find buyers at current prices. Buyers will appear once gold has become cheap, but all of our ratios indicate that this would require a substantial price drop. It is always easier to identify assets that are bubbling than to predict when the bubble will pop. Gold has much more downside than upside at this point, but this has been true for years without slowing price gains. Home prices and tech stocks also suggest that bubbles can exist for years even after objective measures (e.g. P/E ratios or rent to buy ratios) show that markets are out of equilibrium. [/quote] I stand in my gut feeling gold is probably a bubble, or close to maxing out, and not really a great investment. Again, my online research felt 10% or less of your retirement investment should be in gold, if at all. I guess if you had cash you were willing to gamble.... Edited March 19, 2012 by Anomaly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted March 19, 2012 Author Share Posted March 19, 2012 Page 18 here is particularly interesting [url="http://www.berkshirehathaway.com/letters/2011ltr.pdf"]http://www.berkshirehathaway.com/letters/2011ltr.pdf[/url] Here's one with 4 contending views. [url="http://www.minyanville.com/sectors/precious-metals/articles/gold-gold-bubble-price-of-gold/3/14/2012/id/39902"]http://www.minyanville.com/sectors/precious-metals/articles/gold-gold-bubble-price-of-gold/3/14/2012/id/39902[/url] I guess there's no way to know for sure for now. We'll find out one day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 The tendency with hard money has been to gain in value. Part of the rise in gold prices would probably be due to the drop in value of the dollar. You might lose "dollars", but the gold will remain currency barring a disaster of such proportions that you'll only care about killing zombies, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 [quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1332181360' post='2403983'] The tendency with hard money has been to gain in value. [/quote]True to an extent, however, history has shown that Governments have repeatedly worked (using coercion and violence) to remove hard money (gold) as an exchange medium. We have passed the tipping point where the average person can exchange gold for 'exchangeable currency'. If there were a disaster and we want to start using our gold, the Government will repeat history, making it illegal to possess hard money and not allow it to be used for exchange of values. We are trapped into using dollars, but we're discussing purchasing gold to maintain value of our 'cash assets' in the face of disaster that would cause an extreme spike in inflation, devaluing our cash holdings. Considering your link regarding the history of banking and Buffet's opinion about gold having little to no intrinsic value compared to food, energy, or other value producing businesses, it is apparent that Gold's current value is inflated, and no country is basing their currencies value on gold. Gold was a better bet when other counties based their currency on gold, and gold was circulated as a means of exchange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fides' Jack Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 People - people!! I have the answer! ... ... ... ... ROBOTS!! If we build enough robots to do all our work for us, then nobody has to work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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