Nihil Obstat Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1331854344' post='2401469'] The American flag flies on our public buildings and at our homes.Kids says the Pledge to it every day. It represents our ideals, our hopes and our dreams for this country. It represents every American who fought or died for this country. It represents freedom for every immigrant traveling here from all over the world. If you are traveling it represents home. [/quote] Does it represent the current nation, or the idealized nation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Both. Very few things in life have a singular meaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) [quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1331854620' post='2401472'] Both. Very few things in life have a singular meaning. [/quote] So inasmuch as it does represent the current State, wouldn't that imply that it's acceptable to use the flag in some form of protest? Edited March 15, 2012 by Nihil Obstat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrestia Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1331854025' post='2401463'] We're part of the Commonwealth, but a sovereign nation in every respect. Anyway, that's also beside the point. Yeah, like I said that's a compelling explanation. Would you say that the revolutionary war is still "fresh in the mind" of the collective American psyche? [/quote] What does "fresh in the mind" mean? My instinct is to say no, it is not. However, an event does not have to be "fresh in the mind" of a person to affect that person's perspective. Cultural norms develop from events - so many generations later an individual person may not know exactly why something is done a certain way. For some the flag represents more current events. I have family members that fled to the USA during the Vietnam War. For them the flag represents their new found freedom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 [quote name='Adrestia' timestamp='1331854995' post='2401476'] What does "fresh in the mind" mean? My instinct is to say no, it is not. However, an event does not have to be "fresh in the mind" of a person to affect that person's perspective. Cultural norms develop from events - so many generations later an individual person may not know exactly why something is done a certain way. For some the flag represents more current events. I have family members that fled to the USA during the Vietnam War. For them the flag represents their new found freedom. [/quote] Iunno, however you want to interpret that. Collective psyche is a nebulous term anyway. Essentially, do people think about it? Directly or indirectly? From what country did your family members emigrate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrestia Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1331855113' post='2401479'] Iunno, however you want to interpret that. Collective psyche is a nebulous term anyway. Essentially, do people think about it? Directly or indirectly? [/quote] Some do, some don't. I can't answer that for the population at large. [quote] From what country did your family members emigrate? [/quote] Relevance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 [quote name='Adrestia' timestamp='1331855727' post='2401491'] Relevance? [/quote] You mentioned the Vietnam war. I was wondering if they perhaps emigrated from a communist bloc country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i<3LSOP Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1331832828' post='2401229'] I mean offense. [/quote] Well I mean it too... I just don't want to get in trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 [quote name='i<3LSOP' timestamp='1331856547' post='2401510'] Well I mean it too... I just don't want to get in trouble. [/quote] Some people get uptight sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 off-topic posts moved here: http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/119780-off-topic-posts-from-flag-thread/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrestia Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1331856062' post='2401497'] You mentioned the Vietnam war. I was wondering if they perhaps emigrated from a communist bloc country. [/quote] Ahh. My Vietnamese relatives are so by way of marriage. The piece of the story that I heard is that they were taken in by nuns/sisters during the war. My parents and I came to the USA from the Caribbean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 I<3LSOP is such a rebel. [img]http://ballzmontreal.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/g20-protests-g20-protest-003.jpg[/img][quote name='Adrestia' timestamp='1331858007' post='2401540'] Ahh. My Vietnamese relatives are so by way of marriage. The piece of the story that I heard is that they were taken in by nuns/sisters during the war. My parents and I came to the USA from the Caribbean. [/quote] Ah, I see. So it was a country in the Caribbean that's significantly less free than the US? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrestia Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1331858097' post='2401542'] Ah, I see. So it was a country in the Caribbean that's significantly less free than the US? [/quote] I wouldn't say so; but, to my knowledge, it was worse (freedom-wise) when my parents decided to leave. There were other issues too. Not sure what this has to do with respecting the flag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 [quote name='Adrestia' timestamp='1331859431' post='2401569'] I wouldn't say so; but, to my knowledge, it was worse (freedom-wise) when my parents decided to leave. There were other issues too. Not sure what this has to do with respecting the flag. [/quote] I don't personally think staying on topic is all it's cracked up to be. ^_^ Conversations evolve. I met a lot of people through junior high and high school who left Columbia for Canada, all around the same time. I guess things got pretty violent for Catholics especially at some point in the recent past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissScripture Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1331852806' post='2401454'] The assumption in this thread seems to be that I'm actively disrespecting the American flag. That's not really true. I'd like to understand how the whole idea works. [/quote] People may feel like you are being disrespectful because of your first post in this thread, in which you said, [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1331783363' post='2400960'] I want to fly the Vatican flag over an upside down American flag. [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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