franciscanheart Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1331851031' post='2401439'] To be clear, since I thought you quoted from De Musica Sacra in that same post, which I apparently read through too quickly, I didn't know why you were asking me what document it was, so I was legitimately wondering why you did so. [/quote] It should not then take much to understand why it would seem to be implied in your response to me, that you assumed I was being purposefully obtuse. In fact, the assumption that I was being blatantly obtuse is quite obvious to me (and I assume others), as was the desire to uncover motive. Again I share with you the truth: I did not know which document was being cited; there was absolutely no malintent. If you were genuinely ignorant in your questioning and I have misunderstood you, forgive me. Given your history, I am positive you can understand why it was not such a leap to believe you thought me intentionally obtuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 [quote name='franciscanheart' timestamp='1331852328' post='2401450'] It should not then take much to understand why it would seem to be implied in your response to me, that you assumed I was being purposefully obtuse. In fact, the assumption that I was being blatantly obtuse is quite obvious to me (and I assume others), as was the apparent desire to uncover motive. Again I share with you the truth: I did not know which document was being cited; there was absolutely no malintent. If you were genuinely ignorant in your questioning and I have misunderstood you, forgive me. Given your history, I'm sure you can understand why it was not such a leap to believe you thought me intentionally obtuse. [/quote] Given the history of others in these sorts of debates I'm sure you can understand why it was not such a leap for me at times to wonder if I'm being baited. ^_^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franciscanheart Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1331852432' post='2401451'] Given the history of others in these sorts of debates I'm sure you can understand why it was not such a leap for me at times to wonder if I'm being baited. ^_^ [/quote] You'll have to explain what you mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 [quote name='franciscanheart' timestamp='1331852662' post='2401453'] You'll have to explain what you mean. [/quote] I'd prefer not to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franciscanheart Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1331852840' post='2401455'] I'd prefer not to do so. [/quote] Well then I'm left to assume that you did in fact believe me to be intentionally obtuse for some motivation detrimental to you. You were wrong. I hold no resentment for such an assumption, but do encourage you to rethink your standard position of victimhood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 [quote name='franciscanheart' timestamp='1331853315' post='2401458'] Well then I'm left to assume that you did in fact believe me to be intentionally obtuse for some motivation detrimental to you. You were wrong. I hold no resentment for such an assumption, but do encourage you to rethink your standard position of victimhood. [/quote] You are incorrect in your assumption, and more incorrect in calling victimhood my "standard position". I'd like you to retract that last part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franciscanheart Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1331854080' post='2401464'] You are incorrect in your assumption, and more incorrect in calling victimhood my "standard position". I'd like you to retract that last part. [/quote] I prefer not to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 [quote name='franciscanheart' timestamp='1331854214' post='2401465'] I prefer not to do that. [/quote] As is your right, but it remains entirely incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) [quote name='missionseeker' timestamp='1331833984' post='2401246'] I'm really really confused about what you ARE trying to say. NO ONE here is advocating Daivid Hass or guitars at Mass. So I'm not sure what your stance is here. Why did you bring them up? All we are saying is that church allows for WAY more than just chant and polyphony (which, btw, polyphony can mean almost anything, because its literal translation is "many sounds"). So what is your problem with us advocating use of more than just chant? As to the second, Spin it anyway you want, the Church is prescribing that the faithful sing. [/quote] and i thought we are talking about the actual responses of the mass, not the hymns? just saying because it seems like we're getting caught up in talking about the hymns, when what you (missioner) are trying to say is that we are actually talking about the responses that should be sung. Edited March 15, 2012 by Lil Red Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 (moving to debate table.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 [quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1331854586' post='2401471'] and i thought we are talking about the actual responses of the mass, not the hymns? just saying because it seems like we're getting caught up in talking about the hymns, when what you (missioner) are trying to say is that we are actually talking about the responses that should be sung. [/quote] If we actually chanted the propers like they're supposed to be, there'd be so much less room for hymns. It would be amesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 I find hymns to be one of the most edifying parts of the mass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 [quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1331855184' post='2401480'] I find hymns to be one of the most edifying parts of the mass. [/quote] Even when they're used to replace the propers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrestia Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1331855024' post='2401478'] If we actually chanted the propers like they're supposed to be, there'd be so much less room for hymns. It would be amesome. [/quote]Really? We chant and still have hymns during the entrance, collection, communion and recession. I'm not sure where chanting takes up room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Adrestia' timestamp='1331855315' post='2401483'] Really? We chant and still have hymns during the entrance, collection, communion and recession. I'm not sure where chanting takes up room. [/quote] Well in the ideal Mass there is less room for hymns because the propers would be chanted, meaning the Introit, Offertory, etc., etc.. There would still be some room for hymns, but less than what we have now. Probably still some room at the procession, although depending on different factors it may make more sense to chant the Introit at this time. Normally there would be time at the recession, and in large enough parishes there'd probably be further room during the people's Communion, though that's not guaranteed. Edited March 15, 2012 by Nihil Obstat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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