4588686 Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 [quote name='Hubertus' timestamp='1331584593' post='2399756'] Would you say you're "What's Wrong with the World?" [/quote] Chesterton is massively overrated.[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1331584643' post='2399757'] If it weren't for whiskey, the Irish would be the greatest danger to the world. [/quote] My roommate was Irish. Real Irish. I drank Guinness and he complained about American 'piss beer.' It was beautiful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 [quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1331583225' post='2399736'] Me. [/quote]You wish, princess. Earn a Phisy label. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubertus Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 [quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1331584930' post='2399759'] Chesterton is massively overrated.[/quote] He is indeed quoted a lot, but I think the credit is well deserved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Hasan, as a secular humanist, is required to show disdain for religious folk. He could be kicked out of the secular humanist union, if he doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisa Marie Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 [quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1331578042' post='2399682'] That isn't feminism. Those rights all existed well before. Women ran abbeys (both the male and female sides) during the Middle Ages. Those rights were lost during the Protestant Revolt and the "Enlightenment". Feminism is a poorly conceived novelty. Think of terms like "racism" to spot the error. It's merely collectivist claptrap. We needn't have a special term such as "feminism" in order to protect the rights of all humans. [/quote] Um, no. Apparently we do. I'm not talking about the Middle Ages (besides the fact that outside abbeys, what rights did women have in comparison to men?), I'm talking about recent history, particularly American society. We desperately need feminism today - proper feminism, that values women for their own sake. I'm sure most of us on here would agree that one of the undercurrents of the sexual revolution was to try and conform a woman's sexuality to that of a man's. Hence, birth control and abortions and all those terrible things. We need a feminism today that reasserts the inherent dignity of women for their own sake. It took a women's suffrage movement in our country to get people to recognize that women deserve the same kind of rights as men. It took an amendment to our constitution to give me the right to vote. It's taken laws to prevent workplace discrimination. There are so many men out there who don't understand how to treat women with respect, much less people in general. We need feminism, because true feminism asserts not only the dignity of women but also the dignity of men. It says that women are people and men are not pigs. [quote name='Annie12' timestamp='1331579503' post='2399695'] Sorry I didn't specify on Feminism. I totally agree! I'm sorry! it was my fault! [/quote] No worries, you're fine! Not your fault! Catholic feminism is sort of one of my pet causes...in case people can't tell already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 [quote name='Basilisa Marie' timestamp='1331587002' post='2399777'] (besides the fact that outside abbeys, what rights did women have in comparison to men?) [/quote] This is a good starting point. Regine Pernoud is a worthy historian. Happy reading. http://www.amazon.com/Women-Days-Cathedrals-R%C3%A9gine-Pernoud/dp/0898706424/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1331587174&sr=8-1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Apart from that, your assumption that "apparently we do" is unwarranted. Using collectivist tactics has resulted in...more collectivism, and all the errors one would associate with separating people into groups when discussing basic rights. Although voting is not a basic right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisa Marie Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 [quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1331587388' post='2399779'] Apart from that, your assumption that "apparently we do" is unwarranted. Using collectivist tactics has resulted in...more collectivism, and all the errors one would associate with separating people into groups when discussing basic rights. [/quote] I'm hearing a lot of words, but not much of substance. Like I said, I'm not talking about the Middle Ages. I'm talking about now. How we as a society need to start treating women on their own terms. This means, among other things, not trying to treat their sexuality as that of a man. How without the women's movement, objectively speaking I would not have as many rights as a man. And we can't ignore the benefits of feminism when we decry the so-called sexual liberation movement and the advent of birth control and abortion. [quote] Although voting is not a basic right.[/quote] You're just trying to make me mad now, aren't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 [quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1331586012' post='2399769'] Hasan, as a secular humanist, is required to show disdain for religious folk. He could be kicked out of the secular humanist union, if he doesn't. [/quote] I think Shabbir Akhat and Joseph Ratzinger are massively underrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 [quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1331589128' post='2399789'] I think Shabbir Akhat and Joseph Ratzinger are massively underrated. [/quote] Words, words, words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 [quote name='Basilisa Marie' timestamp='1331587821' post='2399782'] I'm hearing a lot of words, but not much of substance. Like I said, I'm not talking about the Middle Ages. I'm talking about now. How we as a society need to start treating women on their own terms. This means, among other things, not trying to treat their sexuality as that of a man. How without the women's movement, objectively speaking I would not have as many rights as a man. And we can't ignore the benefits of feminism when we decry the so-called sexual liberation movement and the advent of birth control and abortion.[/quote] You cannot separate them, just as you cannot separate Marxist's desires to end exploitation from their violent means. [quote] You're just trying to make me mad now, aren't you? [/quote] No, I'm just stating a fact. I don't care for democracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1331590315' post='2399794'] No, I'm just stating a fact. I don't care for democracy. [/quote] Winchester doesn't like democracy. Hitler didn't like democracy. Therefore Winchester likes Hitler. Therefore Winchester wants to kill Jews. Q.E.D. AAAAAAND, on the flip side, Basilia Marie likes democracy. Kathleen Sebelius likes democracy. Therefore Basilia Marie likes Kathleen Sebelius. Therefore Basilia Marie likes the HHS Mandate. Q.E.D. I hereby proclaim that the Phatmass Philosopher Award goes to Nihil Obstat. This action is indisputable. It is indisputable because it comes from the wise keyboard of the great Nihil Obstat. Edited to add: IPSO FACTO Edited March 12, 2012 by Nihil Obstat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kia ora Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 [quote]We need feminism, because true feminism asserts not only the dignity of women but also the dignity of men. It says that women are people and men are not pigs.[/quote]The patriarchal nature of society hurts men just as much as it hurts women. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice_nine Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 [quote name='Kia ora' timestamp='1331625067' post='2400035'] The patriarchal nature of society hurts men just as much as it hurts women. [/quote] interesting . . . do elaborate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisa Marie Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 [quote name='Ice_nine' timestamp='1331635499' post='2400042'] interesting . . . do elaborate! [/quote] I think the biggest part of how it hurts men is that by re-enforcing the "status quo" of women being inferior to men, we're also saying that men are too stupid to act virtuously. That men are incapable of treating women with dignity, that they're just power-hungry animals that have physiological "needs" that women have to fulfill. It's completely degrading. Oh, and Anne12 - I apologize for the giant thread hijack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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