Prophetic Worship?

[Katholikos]

[quote name='the lumberjack' date='May 6 2004, 11:33 AM'] ...its a sad thing to see the Bible taken out of context...even in the slightest.

kinda like the snake handlers in the Appalachian mountains...yup...snake handlers.

God bless.

Christ first and only. [/quote]


Well, tell us how you know that the Bible doesn't mean what it says?

JMJ Likos

[hopeful1]

please stay on topic. thank you


Lumberjack, I didn't take your advatar to be offensive (but then again i was reading this at 12 in the morning when everything goes over my head,) but if you want to explain your advatar (or if anyone else wants to fight over it) please start another thread. thank you.

[Crusader_4]

I mentioned it before but i was still wondering if ne1 could give me the 411 on this "spiritual baptism".

[p0lar_bear]

Crusader_4,

"Baptism in the Holy Spirit" or "spiritual baptism" is not to be confused with the sacrament of baptism. It is definitely not a sacrament or part of a sacrament. Baptism and Confirmation are full and complete without it. However, properly understood, "baptism in the Holy Spirit" is in line with Catholic Faith. In their 1997 document "Grace for the New Springtime," the USCCB used this phrase:


[quote]
As experienced in the Catholic Charismatic Renewal baptism in the Holy Spirit makes Jesus Christ known and loved as Lord and Savior, establishes or reestablishes an immediacy of relationship with all those persons of the Trinity, and through inner transformation affects the whole of the Christian’s life. There is new life and a new conscious awareness of God’s power and presence. It is a grace experience which touches every dimension of the Church’s life: worship, preaching, teaching, ministry, evangelism, prayer and spirituality, service and community. Because of this, it is our conviction that baptism in the Holy Spirit, understood as the reawakening in Christian experience of the presence and action of the Holy Spirit given in Christian initiation, and manifested in a broad range of charisms, including those closely associated with the Catholic Charismatic Renewal, is part of the normal Christian life. [/quote]

[p0lar_bear]

In discussing the "charismatic gifts," the Holy Father affirms their existence and the need for discernment"

[quote]It should be noted that the charisms require discernment, especially in the case of extraordinary charisms. This discernment is given by the same Holy Spirit, who guides the intellect along the way of truth and wisdom. Since the whole ecclesial community has been placed by Christ under the leadership of the ecclesiastical authority, this latter is responsible for judging the value and authenticity of the charisms. The Council says: "Extraordinary gifts are not to be sought after, nor are the fruits of apostolic labor to be presumptuously expected from their use; but judgment as to their genuinity and proper use belongs to those who are appointed leaders in the Church, to whose special competence it belongs, not indeed to extinguish the Spirit, but to test all things and hold fast to that which is good (cf. 1 Thess 5:12, 19-21)" (LG 12).

Some generally followed criteria of discernment can be indicated both by the ecclesiastical authority or by spiritual masters and directors:

a) Agreement with the Church's faith in Jesus Christ (cf. 1 Cor 12:3). A gift of the Holy Spirit cannot be contrary to the faith which the same Spirit inspires in the whole Church. "This is how," St. John writes, "you can know the Spirit of God: every spirit that acknowledges Jesus Christ come in the flesh belongs to God, and every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus does not belong to God" (1 Jn 4:2).

b) The presence of the "fruit of the spirit: love, joy, peace" (Gal 5:22). Every gift of the Spirit fosters growth in love, both in the person himself and in the community, and thus it produces joy and peace.

If a charism causes trouble and confusion, this means either that it is not genuine or that it has not been used in the right way. As St. Paul says: "He is not the God of disorder but of peace" (1 Cor 14:33). Without love, even the most extraordinary charisms are not at all useful (cf. 1 Cor 13:1-3; cf. also Mt 7:22-23).

c) Conformity with the Church's authority and acceptance of its directives. After laying down very strict rules for using charisms in the Church of Corinth, St. Paul says: "If anyone thinks that he is a prophet or a spiritual person, he should recognize that what I am writing to you is a commandment of the Lord" (1 Cor 14:37). The authentic charismatic is recognized by his sincere docility to the pastors of the Church. A charism cannot cause rebellion or a rupture of unity.

d) The use of charisms in the community is subject to a simple rule: "Everything should be done for building up" (1 Cor 14:26). That is, charisms are accepted to the extent that they make a constructive contribution to the life of the community, a life of union with God and of fraternal communion. St. Paul insists firmly on this rule (1 Cor 14:4-5, 12, 18-19, 26-32).
(from his June 24, 1992 General Audience, available at [url="http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/audiences/alpha/data/aud19920624en.html)"]http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_pau...9920624en.html)[/url][/quote]

[hopeful1]

hey new ref! were you still thinking about doing that post?

[Crusader_4]

Great thanx. Yea i knew it was not anything like an actual baptism as a sacrament. Polar Bear thank you very much for your extensive help.

[hopeful1]

bump

[p0lar_bear]

hopeful1,

Are you still waiting for an answer to a question or did you just want to revive the thread?

[hopeful1]

just reviving the thread. I thought New Ref was going to add something to it, but i guess it's all been said and done.