Interview With Vatican Astronomer

[cmotherofpirl]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfvrFcOxomM"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfvrFcOxomM[/url]

[Guest]

Thanks. Shared on my facebook.

[4588686]

The idea that Church and science are opposed was an idea that had no precedent before the mid nineteenth century? I'm sorry, but what has he been smoking? That is manifestly wrong. Um. The salon's of the French enlightenment come to mind as the most obvious historical proof of how ridiculousness that is (not that the general tenor of the whole enlightenment wasn't hostile to the Catholic Church, just it seems that the French tended to be more aggressively atheistic and hostile to all religion). Diderot, [color=#000000][font=sans-serif][size=3]D'Holbach,[/size][/font][/color] Hume (yes, Scotch, not French) and all. That's just in regards to an assertive atheism which sees the Church as a strangler of scientific progress. That doesn't even consider the liberal Protestants and Deists who saw the Church as a retardant to human progress and science.

I just really don't know what to say. That such an obviously wrong claim that I'm still not sure that I didn't misunderstand him.

How weird.

I did think the note about the Vatican's desire to fund the Observatory as an assertion of independence from Italy was pretty interesting.

[cmotherofpirl]

[font=sans-serif][size=3] [/size][/font][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolaus_Copernicus"][color=#000000]Nicolaus Copernicus[/color][/url][color=#000000][font=sans-serif][size=3],Roger Bacon[/size][/font][font=sans-serif][size=3], [/size][/font][/color][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albertus_Magnus"][color=#000000]Albertus Magnus[/color][/url][color=#000000][font=sans-serif][size=3], [/size][/font][/color][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Grosseteste"][color=#000000]Robert Grosseteste[/color][/url][color=#000000][font=sans-serif][size=3], [/size][/font][/color][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_Steno"][color=#000000]Nicholas Steno[/color][/url][color=#000000][font=sans-serif][size=3], [/size][/font][/color][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francesco_Maria_Grimaldi"][color=#000000]Francesco Grimaldi[/color][/url][color=#000000][font=sans-serif][size=3], [/size][/font][/color][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giovanni_Battista_Riccioli"][color=#000000]Giambattista Riccioli[/color][/url][color=#000000][font=sans-serif][size=3], [/size][/font][/color][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Boscovich"][color=#000000]Roger Boscovich[/color][/url][color=#000000][font=sans-serif][size=3], [/size][/font][/color][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athanasius_Kircher"][color=#000000]Athanasius Kircher[/color][/url][color=#000000][font=sans-serif][size=3], [/size][/font][/color][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregor_Mendel"][color=#000000]Gregor Mendel[/color][/url][color=#000000][font=sans-serif][size=3], [/size][/font][/color][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lema%C3%AEtre"][color=#000000]Georges Lemaître[/color][/url][color=#000000][font=sans-serif][size=3] or maybe this list:[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=sans-serif][size=5]Jesuits[/size][/font][/color][list]
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_de_Acosta"]José de Acosta[/url] (1540–1600), one of the first [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_history"]naturalists[/url] and [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropology"]anthropologists[/url] of the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americas"]Americas[/url].
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fran%C3%A7ois_d%27Aguilon"]François d'Aguilon[/url]-Belgian mathematician and physicist who worked on optics.
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giuseppe_Asclepi"]Giuseppe Asclepi[/url]-Italian astronomer.
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Bayma"]Joseph Bayma[/url]-He did work relating to [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereochemistry"]stereochemistry[/url].
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giuseppe_Biancani"]Giuseppe Biancani[/url]-Astronomer and [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selenographer"]selenographer[/url] who wrote [i]Sphaera mundi, seu cosmographia demonstrativa, ac facili methodo tradita[/i]
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michel_Benoist"]Michel Benoist[/url]-Missionary to China and scientist.
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mario_Bettinus"]Mario Bettinus[/url]-Mathematician and astronomer.
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_de_Billy"]Jacques de Billy[/url]-He wrote on [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_theory"]number theory[/url] and astronomy.
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micha%C5%82_Boym"]Michał Boym[/url]-Missionary to China known for botanical and zoological works.
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Joseph_Boscovich"]Roger Joseph Boscovich[/url]-[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymath"]Polymath[/url] (1711–1787) (17 famous for his [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_theory"]atomic theory[/url] in part. Also for devising perhaps the first geometric procedure for determining the equator of a rotating planet from three observations of a surface feature and for computing the orbit of a planet from three observations of its position.
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paolo_Casati"]Paolo Casati[/url]-Meteorology and speculation on [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum"]Vacuums[/url].
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommaso_Ceva"]Tommaso Ceva[/url]-Mathematician and poet who wrote a work on geometry.
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Teilhard_de_Chardin"]Pierre Teilhard de Chardin[/url] (1881–1955), French [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palaeontologist"]Palaeontologist[/url] and philosopher involved in the discovery of the so-called [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peking_Man"]Peking Man[/url].
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Clavius"]Christopher Clavius[/url] (1538–1612), most noted in connection with the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregorian_calendar"]Gregorian calendar[/url], but also his arithmetic books were used by many mathematicians including Leibniz and Descartes.
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Consolmagno"]Guy Consolmagno[/url] (1952-), an astronomer at the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatican_Observatory"]Vatican Observatory[/url] who has primarily devoted himself to [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planetary_science"]planetary science[/url]. He received his B.A. (1974) and M.A. (1975) from M.I.T. and earned a Ph.D. (1978) from the University of Arizona.
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_V._Coyne"]George V. Coyne[/url] (1933-), astronomer whose research interests have been in polarimetric studies of various subjects including [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seyfert_galaxies"]Seyfert galaxies[/url].
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Curtz"]Albert Curtz[/url]-German astronomer.
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Cullen_(mathematician)"]James Cullen (mathematician)[/url]-Known for the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cullen_number"]Cullen numbers[/url].
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Baptist_Cysat"]Johann Baptist Cysat[/url]-He did important research on comets and the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orion_nebula"]Orion nebula[/url].
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Charles_de_la_Faille"]Jean-Charles de la Faille[/url]-Belgian mathematician.
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josef_Dobrovsk%C3%BD"]Josef Dobrovský[/url]-[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philologist"]philologist[/url], [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguist"]linguist[/url], [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavist"]slavist[/url] and [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historian"]historian[/url]. One of most prominent persons in [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czech_national_revival"]Czech national revival[/url].
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyula_F%C3%A9nyi"]Gyula Fényi[/url]-Hungarian astronomer noted for his observations of the Sun.
[*][b]Kevin Fitzgerald[/b] (2011)- A Molecular Biologist with dual doctorates in Molecular Biology (Georgetown, 1996) and Bioethics (Georgetown, 1999). His recent research concentrations involve angiogenesis and abnormal gene regulation. He currently holds the Dr. David Lauler chair in Catholic Health Care Ethics at Georgetown University while simultaneously working as an associate research professor in the division of Biochemistry and Pharmacology within the department of Oncology at Georgetown University.
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Gabriel_Funes"]José Gabriel Funes[/url]-Argentine who currently heads the Vatican Observatory, succeeding George Coyne.
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christoph_Grienberger"]Christoph Grienberger[/url]-Astronomer and mathematician.
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francesco_Maria_Grimaldi"]Francesco Maria Grimaldi[/url]-He coined the word 'diffraction' and used instruments to measure geological features on the Moon.
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bartolomeu_de_Gusm%C3%A3o"]Bartolomeu de Gusmão[/url] (1685-1724), naturalist noted for developing the first working [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerostat"]aerostats[/url].
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximilian_Hell"]Maximilian Hell[/url]-A director of the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_Observatory"]Vienna Observatory[/url] who wrote astronomy tables and observed the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transit_of_Venus"]Transit of Venus[/url].
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Marie_Heude"]Pierre Marie Heude[/url]-French missionary and zoologist.
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georg_Joseph_Kamel"]Georg Joseph Kamel[/url]-Missionary and botanist, the genus [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camellia"]Camellia[/url] is named for him.
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athanasius_Kircher"]Athanasius Kircher[/url]-In his [i]Scrutinium Pestis[/i] of [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1658"]1658[/url] he noted the presence of "little worms" or "animalcules" in the blood, and concluded that the disease was caused by microorganisms. This is antecedent to [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germ_theory"]germ theory[/url].
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wenceslas_Pantaleon_Kirwitzer"]Wenceslas Pantaleon Kirwitzer[/url]-Astronomer and missionary to China.
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_Xaver_Kugler"]Franz Xaver Kugler[/url]-Most known for his study of [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuneiform"]cuneiform[/url] tablets he was also a chemist.
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antoine_de_Laloub%C3%A8re"]Antoine de Laloubère[/url]-Mathematician who studied the properties of the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helix"]helix[/url].
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_Lafont"]Eugene Lafont[/url]- Founder of the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Association_for_the_Cultivation_of_Science"]Indian Association for the Cultivation of Science[/url]
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manuel_Magri"]Manuel Magri[/url] (1851–1907) - Maltese folklorist and archaeologist.
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Malapert"]Charles Malapert[/url]-Known for observing the stars of the southern sky and being against [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copernicus"]Copernicus[/url].
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_McNally"]Paul McNally[/url]-American astronomer who was a director of the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgetown_University_Astronomical_Observatory"]Georgetown Observatory[/url].
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Mayer_(astronomer)"]Christian Mayer[/url]-Czech astronomer known for pioneering study of [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_star"]binary stars[/url].
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Ignacio_Molina"]Juan Ignacio Molina[/url]-Chilean ornithologist and a botanist with a [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Author_citation_(botany)"]Author citation (botany)[/url].
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexius_Sylvius_Polonus"]Alexius Sylvius Polonus[/url]-Polish astronomer.
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_Reinzer"]Franz Reinzer[/url]-He wrote about comets, meteors, lightning, winds, fossils, metals, etc.
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincenzo_Riccati"]Vincenzo Riccati[/url]-Jesuit mathematician and physicist.
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matteo_Ricci"]Matteo Ricci[/url] (1552–1610), mathematician, math translator, and noted for importance to the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesuit_China_missions"]Jesuit China missions[/url].
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giovanni_Battista_Riccioli"]Giovanni Battista Riccioli[/url]-He wrote several works on astronomy and was the first to note that [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mizar_(star)"]Mizar[/url] was a "[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_star"]double star[/url]."
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giovanni_Girolamo_Saccheri"]Giovanni Girolamo Saccheri[/url]-A mathematician who was perhaps the first European to write about [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-Euclidean_geometry"]Non-Euclidean geometry[/url].
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christoph_Scheiner"]Christoph Scheiner[/url]-Astronomer noted for a dispute with [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_Galilei"]Galileo Galilei[/url] over the discovery of [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunspot"]Sunspots[/url].
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaspar_Schott"]Gaspar Schott[/url]-He wrote on various mechanical and scientific topics, example [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gear"]gear[/url], but little original research.
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angelo_Secchi"]Angelo Secchi[/url]-He discovered the existence of [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spicule_(solar_physics)"]solar spicules[/url] and drew an early map of [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars"]Mars[/url]
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerolamo_Sersale"]Gerolamo Sersale[/url]-[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selenography"]Selenographer[/url], the crater [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sirsalis_(crater)"]Sirsalis (crater)[/url] is named for him.
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignacije_Szentmartony"]Ignacije Szentmartony[/url]-"obtained the title of royal mathematician and astronomer" and used his astronomical knowledge in mapping parts of [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazil"]Brazil[/url]
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andr%C3%A9_Tacquet"]André Tacquet[/url]-His work prepared ground for the eventual discovery of [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calculus"]calculus[/url].
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_de_Paula_Triesnecker"]Franz de Paula Triesnecker[/url]-Austrian astronomer.
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodor_Wulf"]Theodor Wulf[/url]-Among the first experimenters to detect excess atmospheric radiation.
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niccolo_Zucchi"]Niccolo Zucchi[/url]-Italian astronomer known for his study of [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jupiter"]Jupiter[/url] and work on [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telescope"]telescope[/url] design.
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giovanni_Battista_Zupi"]Giovanni Battista Zupi[/url]-Italian astronomer who discovered that [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_(planet)"]Mercury[/url] had orbital phases.
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valentin_Stansel"]Valentin Stansel[/url] (1621 – 1705)- Czech astronomer in Brazil, discovered a comet that after accurate positions were made via F. de Gottignies in Goa, became known as Estancel-Gottignies comet.
[/list]

[4588686]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1331482652' post='2399075']
[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolaus_Copernicus"][color=#000000]Nicolaus Copernicus[/color][/url][color=#000000][font=sans-serif][size=3],Roger Bacon[/size][/font][font=sans-serif][size=3], [/size][/font][/color][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albertus_Magnus"][color=#000000]Albertus Magnus[/color][/url][color=#000000][font=sans-serif][size=3], [/size][/font][/color][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Grosseteste"][color=#000000]Robert Grosseteste[/color][/url][color=#000000][font=sans-serif][size=3], [/size][/font][/color][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_Steno"][color=#000000]Nicholas Steno[/color][/url][color=#000000][font=sans-serif][size=3], [/size][/font][/color][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francesco_Maria_Grimaldi"][color=#000000]Francesco Grimaldi[/color][/url][color=#000000][font=sans-serif][size=3], [/size][/font][/color][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giovanni_Battista_Riccioli"][color=#000000]Giambattista Riccioli[/color][/url][color=#000000][font=sans-serif][size=3], [/size][/font][/color][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Boscovich"][color=#000000]Roger Boscovich[/color][/url][color=#000000][font=sans-serif][size=3], [/size][/font][/color][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athanasius_Kircher"][color=#000000]Athanasius Kircher[/color][/url][color=#000000][font=sans-serif][size=3], [/size][/font][/color][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregor_Mendel"][color=#000000]Gregor Mendel[/color][/url][color=#000000][font=sans-serif][size=3], [/size][/font][/color][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lema%C3%AEtre"][color=#000000]Georges Lemaître[/color][/url][color=#000000][font=sans-serif][size=3] or maybe this list:[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=sans-serif][size=5]Jesuits[/size][/font][/color][list]
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_de_Acosta"]José de Acosta[/url] (1540–1600), one of the first [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_history"]naturalists[/url] and [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropology"]anthropologists[/url] of the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americas"]Americas[/url].
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fran%C3%A7ois_d%27Aguilon"]François d'Aguilon[/url]-Belgian mathematician and physicist who worked on optics.
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giuseppe_Asclepi"]Giuseppe Asclepi[/url]-Italian astronomer.
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Bayma"]Joseph Bayma[/url]-He did work relating to [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereochemistry"]stereochemistry[/url].
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giuseppe_Biancani"]Giuseppe Biancani[/url]-Astronomer and [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selenographer"]selenographer[/url] who wrote [i]Sphaera mundi, seu cosmographia demonstrativa, ac facili methodo tradita[/i]
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michel_Benoist"]Michel Benoist[/url]-Missionary to China and scientist.
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mario_Bettinus"]Mario Bettinus[/url]-Mathematician and astronomer.
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_de_Billy"]Jacques de Billy[/url]-He wrote on [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_theory"]number theory[/url] and astronomy.
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micha%C5%82_Boym"]Michał Boym[/url]-Missionary to China known for botanical and zoological works.
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Joseph_Boscovich"]Roger Joseph Boscovich[/url]-[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymath"]Polymath[/url] (1711–1787) (17 famous for his [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_theory"]atomic theory[/url] in part. Also for devising perhaps the first geometric procedure for determining the equator of a rotating planet from three observations of a surface feature and for computing the orbit of a planet from three observations of its position.
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paolo_Casati"]Paolo Casati[/url]-Meteorology and speculation on [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum"]Vacuums[/url].
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommaso_Ceva"]Tommaso Ceva[/url]-Mathematician and poet who wrote a work on geometry.
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Teilhard_de_Chardin"]Pierre Teilhard de Chardin[/url] (1881–1955), French [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palaeontologist"]Palaeontologist[/url] and philosopher involved in the discovery of the so-called [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peking_Man"]Peking Man[/url].
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Clavius"]Christopher Clavius[/url] (1538–1612), most noted in connection with the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregorian_calendar"]Gregorian calendar[/url], but also his arithmetic books were used by many mathematicians including Leibniz and Descartes.
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Consolmagno"]Guy Consolmagno[/url] (1952-), an astronomer at the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatican_Observatory"]Vatican Observatory[/url] who has primarily devoted himself to [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planetary_science"]planetary science[/url]. He received his B.A. (1974) and M.A. (1975) from M.I.T. and earned a Ph.D. (1978) from the University of Arizona.
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_V._Coyne"]George V. Coyne[/url] (1933-), astronomer whose research interests have been in polarimetric studies of various subjects including [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seyfert_galaxies"]Seyfert galaxies[/url].
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Curtz"]Albert Curtz[/url]-German astronomer.
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Cullen_(mathematician)"]James Cullen (mathematician)[/url]-Known for the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cullen_number"]Cullen numbers[/url].
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Baptist_Cysat"]Johann Baptist Cysat[/url]-He did important research on comets and the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orion_nebula"]Orion nebula[/url].
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Charles_de_la_Faille"]Jean-Charles de la Faille[/url]-Belgian mathematician.
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josef_Dobrovsk%C3%BD"]Josef Dobrovský[/url]-[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philologist"]philologist[/url], [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguist"]linguist[/url], [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavist"]slavist[/url] and [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historian"]historian[/url]. One of most prominent persons in [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czech_national_revival"]Czech national revival[/url].
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyula_F%C3%A9nyi"]Gyula Fényi[/url]-Hungarian astronomer noted for his observations of the Sun.
[*][b]Kevin Fitzgerald[/b] (2011)- A Molecular Biologist with dual doctorates in Molecular Biology (Georgetown, 1996) and Bioethics (Georgetown, 1999). His recent research concentrations involve angiogenesis and abnormal gene regulation. He currently holds the Dr. David Lauler chair in Catholic Health Care Ethics at Georgetown University while simultaneously working as an associate research professor in the division of Biochemistry and Pharmacology within the department of Oncology at Georgetown University.
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Gabriel_Funes"]José Gabriel Funes[/url]-Argentine who currently heads the Vatican Observatory, succeeding George Coyne.
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christoph_Grienberger"]Christoph Grienberger[/url]-Astronomer and mathematician.
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francesco_Maria_Grimaldi"]Francesco Maria Grimaldi[/url]-He coined the word 'diffraction' and used instruments to measure geological features on the Moon.
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bartolomeu_de_Gusm%C3%A3o"]Bartolomeu de Gusmão[/url] (1685-1724), naturalist noted for developing the first working [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerostat"]aerostats[/url].
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximilian_Hell"]Maximilian Hell[/url]-A director of the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_Observatory"]Vienna Observatory[/url] who wrote astronomy tables and observed the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transit_of_Venus"]Transit of Venus[/url].
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Marie_Heude"]Pierre Marie Heude[/url]-French missionary and zoologist.
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georg_Joseph_Kamel"]Georg Joseph Kamel[/url]-Missionary and botanist, the genus [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camellia"]Camellia[/url] is named for him.
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athanasius_Kircher"]Athanasius Kircher[/url]-In his [i]Scrutinium Pestis[/i] of [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1658"]1658[/url] he noted the presence of "little worms" or "animalcules" in the blood, and concluded that the disease was caused by microorganisms. This is antecedent to [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germ_theory"]germ theory[/url].
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wenceslas_Pantaleon_Kirwitzer"]Wenceslas Pantaleon Kirwitzer[/url]-Astronomer and missionary to China.
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_Xaver_Kugler"]Franz Xaver Kugler[/url]-Most known for his study of [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuneiform"]cuneiform[/url] tablets he was also a chemist.
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antoine_de_Laloub%C3%A8re"]Antoine de Laloubère[/url]-Mathematician who studied the properties of the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helix"]helix[/url].
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_Lafont"]Eugene Lafont[/url]- Founder of the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Association_for_the_Cultivation_of_Science"]Indian Association for the Cultivation of Science[/url]
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manuel_Magri"]Manuel Magri[/url] (1851–1907) - Maltese folklorist and archaeologist.
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Malapert"]Charles Malapert[/url]-Known for observing the stars of the southern sky and being against [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copernicus"]Copernicus[/url].
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_McNally"]Paul McNally[/url]-American astronomer who was a director of the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgetown_University_Astronomical_Observatory"]Georgetown Observatory[/url].
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Mayer_(astronomer)"]Christian Mayer[/url]-Czech astronomer known for pioneering study of [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_star"]binary stars[/url].
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Ignacio_Molina"]Juan Ignacio Molina[/url]-Chilean ornithologist and a botanist with a [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Author_citation_(botany)"]Author citation (botany)[/url].
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexius_Sylvius_Polonus"]Alexius Sylvius Polonus[/url]-Polish astronomer.
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_Reinzer"]Franz Reinzer[/url]-He wrote about comets, meteors, lightning, winds, fossils, metals, etc.
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincenzo_Riccati"]Vincenzo Riccati[/url]-Jesuit mathematician and physicist.
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matteo_Ricci"]Matteo Ricci[/url] (1552–1610), mathematician, math translator, and noted for importance to the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesuit_China_missions"]Jesuit China missions[/url].
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giovanni_Battista_Riccioli"]Giovanni Battista Riccioli[/url]-He wrote several works on astronomy and was the first to note that [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mizar_(star)"]Mizar[/url] was a "[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_star"]double star[/url]."
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giovanni_Girolamo_Saccheri"]Giovanni Girolamo Saccheri[/url]-A mathematician who was perhaps the first European to write about [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-Euclidean_geometry"]Non-Euclidean geometry[/url].
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christoph_Scheiner"]Christoph Scheiner[/url]-Astronomer noted for a dispute with [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_Galilei"]Galileo Galilei[/url] over the discovery of [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunspot"]Sunspots[/url].
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaspar_Schott"]Gaspar Schott[/url]-He wrote on various mechanical and scientific topics, example [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gear"]gear[/url], but little original research.
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angelo_Secchi"]Angelo Secchi[/url]-He discovered the existence of [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spicule_(solar_physics)"]solar spicules[/url] and drew an early map of [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars"]Mars[/url]
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerolamo_Sersale"]Gerolamo Sersale[/url]-[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selenography"]Selenographer[/url], the crater [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sirsalis_(crater)"]Sirsalis (crater)[/url] is named for him.
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignacije_Szentmartony"]Ignacije Szentmartony[/url]-"obtained the title of royal mathematician and astronomer" and used his astronomical knowledge in mapping parts of [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazil"]Brazil[/url]
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andr%C3%A9_Tacquet"]André Tacquet[/url]-His work prepared ground for the eventual discovery of [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calculus"]calculus[/url].
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_de_Paula_Triesnecker"]Franz de Paula Triesnecker[/url]-Austrian astronomer.
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodor_Wulf"]Theodor Wulf[/url]-Among the first experimenters to detect excess atmospheric radiation.
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niccolo_Zucchi"]Niccolo Zucchi[/url]-Italian astronomer known for his study of [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jupiter"]Jupiter[/url] and work on [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telescope"]telescope[/url] design.
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giovanni_Battista_Zupi"]Giovanni Battista Zupi[/url]-Italian astronomer who discovered that [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_(planet)"]Mercury[/url] had orbital phases.
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valentin_Stansel"]Valentin Stansel[/url] (1621 – 1705)- Czech astronomer in Brazil, discovered a comet that after accurate positions were made via F. de Gottignies in Goa, became known as Estancel-Gottignies comet.
[/list]
[/quote]


That has nothing to do with my point. I didn't say that there were no scientists who were Catholics or clergy before the mid-19th century. Of course there were. It would be astounding if that weren't the case considering that for a long time in Europe the clergy (of a certain class) made up a huge percentage of those very few who received any substantive education.

What he claimed, and is mannifestly not true, is that the idea that the Church and science were antagonistic forces didn't arise until the mid 19th century. And that claim is absolutely preposterous. The idea that the Church and science were antagonistic has substantive precedent going back at least to the Enlightenment.


I'm not sure about the claim regarding Secchi. He didn't write about non-Euclidean intentionally. He assumed that Euclidean geometry was true and was attempting to prove it by fiddling with the parallel postulate. He was obviously a good mathematician but trying to steal credit from Bolyai and Lobachevsky seems a bit underhanded to me.

[Ice_nine]

I wonder if he meant the idea that faith and science were incompatible with another. I'm not sure how that plays out historically, but there is the possibility that he's *gasp* wrong.

[Basilisa Marie]

So was I the only one who thought this thread was called "Interview with a Vampire"?

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1331442291' post='2398983']
The idea that Church and science are opposed was an idea that had no precedent before the mid nineteenth century? I'm sorry, but what has he been smoking? That is manifestly wrong. Um. The salon's of the French enlightenment come to mind as the most obvious historical proof of how ridiculousness that is (not that the general tenor of the whole enlightenment wasn't hostile to the Catholic Church, just it seems that the French tended to be more aggressively atheistic and hostile to all religion). Diderot, [color=#000000][font=sans-serif][size=3]D'Holbach,[/size][/font][/color] Hume (yes, Scotch, not French) and all. That's just in regards to an assertive atheism which sees the Church as a strangler of scientific progress. That doesn't even consider the liberal Protestants and Deists who saw the Church as a retardant to human progress and science.

I just really don't know what to say. That such an obviously wrong claim that I'm still not sure that I didn't misunderstand him.

How weird.

I did think the note about the Vatican's desire to fund the Observatory as an assertion of independence from Italy was pretty interesting.
[/quote]

Did it ever occur to you that the reason people have issues with you is that no matter what they post, you have made it your personal mission here on a catholic board to tear it down, disparage, be critical or insulting about it ??

Just saying....

[4588686]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1331494655' post='2399120']
Did it ever occur to you that the reason people have issues with you is that no matter what they post, you have made it your personal mission here on a catholic board to tear it down, disparage, be critical or insulting about it ??

Just saying....
[/quote]

I haven't made that my personal mission. But I do get defensive and therefore aggressive when I constantly see people here unfairly disparaging, being critical towards, or insulting things that I care about deeply. That is your right, of course, as this is a Catholic forum, but when I came here I was led to believe that this was a board that valued discussion with non-Catholics. If the desire is to create a echo chamber where Catholics can bask in how right they are about everything then I think that should be made more clear. I do try to be respectful of the actual dogma and official representatives of the Church, although obviously I have lapsed in that effort over the last few months but it is something I will try to be better about. I don't feel any obligation to not tear down obviously false claims by someone simply because they are Catholic and this is a Catholic forum. I do feel an obligation to project a better attitude that I sometimes display.

I guess my point is that I don't think there was any need for me to be so snide in response to the Priest's claim and that was rude and disrespectful to you, and therefore I regret it, but I don't have any regret about the idea of pointing out that his historical claim is demonstrably false.

Edited March 11, 2012 by Hasan

[Deus te Amat]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1331442291' post='2398983']
The idea that Church and science are opposed was an idea that had no precedent before the mid nineteenth century? I'm sorry, but what has he been smoking? That is manifestly wrong. Um. The salon's of the French enlightenment come to mind as the most obvious historical proof of how ridiculousness that is (not that the general tenor of the whole enlightenment wasn't hostile to the Catholic Church, just it seems that the French tended to be more aggressively atheistic and hostile to all religion). Diderot, [color=#000000][font=sans-serif][size=3]D'Holbach,[/size][/font][/color] Hume (yes, Scotch, not French) and all. That's just in regards to an assertive atheism which sees the Church as a strangler of scientific progress. That doesn't even consider the liberal Protestants and Deists who saw the Church as a retardant to human progress and science.

I just really don't know what to say. That such an obviously wrong claim that I'm still not sure that I didn't misunderstand him.

How weird.

I did think the note about the Vatican's desire to fund the Observatory as an assertion of independence from Italy was pretty interesting.
[/quote]

I would like to point out that the main force behind the French Royal society was a minim friar, Marin Mersenne.

[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marin_Mersenne"]http://en.wikipedia..../Marin_Mersenne[/url]

As a Catholic theologian that always remained in good standing with the Church, Mersenne was dialogued with all manner of post-reformation scientists, including especially Descartes and Pascal.

When you say "going back to at least the Enlightment", you show your ignorance regarding the greater portion of Church history. The Church has been in favor of scientific progress since its inception, as Truth is man's end. Consequences of the reformation, especially man's, overreacting, as you like to say, do not negate this greater trend.


Edited for word choice.

Edited March 11, 2012 by Deus_te_Amat

[4588686]

[quote name='Deus_te_Amat' timestamp='1331504295' post='2399169']
I would like to point out that the main force behind the French Royal society was a minim friar, Marin Mersenne.

[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marin_Mersenne"]http://en.wikipedia..../Marin_Mersenne[/url]

As a Catholic theologian that always remained in good standing with the Church, Mersenne was dialogued with all manner of post-reformation scientists, including especially Descartes and Pascal.

When you say "going back to at least the Enlightment", you show your ignorance regarding the greater portion of Church history. The Church has been in favor of scientific progress since its inception, as Truth is man's end. Consequences of the reformation, especially man's, overreacting, as you like to say, do not disregard this greater trend.
[/quote]

I made no claim about the validity of the view that the Church and science are opposed. Nor did I make any claim about the over all tenor of the Church's relationship with science. He claim, falsely, that the IDEA that the Church and science were opposed, did not originate before the mid-19th century. And that, is just false, the assertion that the Church and science are opposed and clash goes back to at least the Enlightenment as a mainstream idea (by which I mean an idea held by major figures to the Western intellectual tradition). I didn't say that they were right. I just noted that they made the claim, and made it well before the mid-19th century.

[mortify]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1331504556' post='2399172']
I made no claim about the validity of the view that the Church and science are opposed. Nor did I make any claim about the over all tenor of the Church's relationship with science. He claim, falsely, that the IDEA that the Church and science were opposed, did not originate before the mid-19th century. And that, is just false, the assertion that the Church and science are opposed and clash goes back to at least the Enlightenment as a mainstream idea (by which I mean an idea held by major figures to the Western intellectual tradition). I didn't say that they were right. I just noted that they made the claim, and made it well before the mid-19th century.
[/quote]

Hasan, if what Br. Guy said is incorrect, then it would be very easy for you to prove him wrong. Keep in mind however that opposing the Church, and undermining her authority, is not the same as proposing that science and the Church are opposed. The latter is a specific proposition, and again, if you are right, it will be very easy for you to prove him wrong.

Cheers

[4588686]

[quote name='mortify' timestamp='1331508959' post='2399219']
Hasan, if what Br. Guy said is incorrect, then it would be very easy for you to prove him wrong. Keep in mind however that opposing the Church, and undermining her authority, is not the same as proposing that science and the Church are opposed. The latter is a specific proposition, and again, if you are right, it will be very easy for you to prove him wrong.

Cheers
[/quote]

I specifically cited individuals who asserted that the Church has had a deleterious impact on scientific thought. It's not a hard claim to prove. I don't know what else to do to prove his claim wrong. I think it's pretty common knowledge that individuals like Voltaire was hostile to the Catholic Church and saw it as an obstacle to progress.

Here's an internet source:
[url="http://www.brucekelly.com/library/enlightenment.html"]http://www.brucekell...ightenment.html[/url]
[left][i]Although they saw the church-especially the Roman Catholic church-as the principal force that had enslaved the human mind in the past, most Enlightenment thinkers did not renounce religion altogether. They opted rather for a form of Deism, accepting the existence of God and of a hereafter, but rejecting the intricacies of Christian theology. Human aspirations, they believed, should not be centered on the next life, but rather on the means of improving this life. Worldly happiness was placed before religious salvation. Nothing was attacked with more intensity and ferocity than the church, with all its wealth, political power, and suppression of the free exercise of reason.[/i][/left]

If you want we can start a thread on this. And I certainly feel responsible to try to support my claim there since I made a point to criticize the Priest's claim. But I don't want to continue it here.

Edited March 12, 2012 by Hasan

[RezaMikhaeil]

I actually agree with Mr. Hasan. I don't have to go further then the Roman Catholic Churches treatment of Galileo and his scientific discoveries to prove my point.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='RezaMikhaeil' timestamp='1331680462' post='2400281']
I actually agree with Mr. Hasan. I don't have to go further then the Roman Catholic Churches treatment of Galileo and his scientific discoveries to prove my point.
[/quote]

Then you would be wrong as well.

The Church's problem with Galileo was not his science, but the fact he wanted to update Genesis.