Why I Have Been A Jerk Lately

[Groo the Wanderer]

hm. even though you will not accept limbaugh's apology, i will accept yours.

ty hasan


peace

[4588686]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' timestamp='1331263341' post='2398036']
Yes or no the Koran teaches if you don't convert you are put to death ? There is a Christian Pastor right now who they are about to hang cause He won't convert. Why would I want to read this book ?
[/quote]

No. It doesn't. Not even under the most extreme versions of Salafism. Hence why there are Christian communities in Saudi Arabia (this also is how the Saudi faithful get their alcohol as Christians re allowed to purchase it and then sell it on the black market). That does not mean the religious minorities under an Islamic state have equal rights.

[4588686]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' timestamp='1331264619' post='2398042']
Ok and like I said I love Muslims. I was just answering original posters question why no one was sticking up for their rights. Mabey its because they had just ran planes into the Twin Towers. And mabey its because at the heart of their religion they are INSTRUCTED to kill whoever won't convert.
[/quote]

So I guess you accept moral responsibility for the Croatian Ustashi government and the atrocities comitted against Serbs by Catholic Croats in the Balkans.

[4588686]

[quote name='Slappo' timestamp='1331262539' post='2398032']
According to the muslim religion it is neither moral or immoral for a muslim to build a mosque near ground zero. It is a morally neutral situation for the muslim religion.
[/quote]

I wasn't aware that Catholics had a moral responsibility to run Catholic affiliated hospitals. There is a mandate to care for the poor but not to that specificity.

But that really doesn't matter. It was an (attempted) assault on these individual's religious freedom as understood by American law. Indisputably. But I saw here mostly justifications for those who wanted to intimidate and use legal loopholes to prohibit Muslims from building a cultural center two blocks away from ground zero.

[Guest]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1331265114' post='2398047']


So I guess you accept moral responsibility for the Croatian Ustashi government and the atrocities comitted against Serbs by Catholic Croats in the Balkans.
[/quote] No I was just answering your question with my honest opinon. I'm for Muslims having the freesome to practice their religion.

Edited March 9, 2012 by Guest

[PhuturePriest]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1331255686' post='2397985']
I have been something of a Johnsonville brat the last little while as controversy over the contraception mandate has raged here. And I have been trying to figure out why it has touched such a raw nerve. [b]And I suppose that this is the answer: gays and Muslims. [/b]
[/quote]

I'm sorry, the highlighted part just makes me crack up.

[Groo the Wanderer]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1331265605' post='2398052']
I wasn't aware that Catholics had a moral responsibility to run Catholic affiliated hospitals.
[/quote]

seriously?


so....catholics are supposed to run...baptist affiliated hospitals or sumthin?

dood - you goota quit smoking banana peels and corn flakes. that makes no sense whatsoever

[PhuturePriest]

Well, the Quran actually does state to kill infidels. Here's a great link by Father David Mary of the Franciscan Brothers Minor on the matter of the mosque being near Ground Zero: http://franciscanbrothersminor.com/FBM/A_Mosque_at_Ground_Zero.html

[4588686]

[quote name='FuturePriest387' timestamp='1331266107' post='2398058']
Well, the Quran actually does state to kill infidels. Here's a great link by Father David Mary of the Franciscan Brothers Minor on the matter of the mosque being near Ground Zero: [url="http://franciscanbrothersminor.com/FBM/A_Mosque_at_Ground_Zero.html"]http://franciscanbro...round_Zero.html[/url]
[/quote]

That man is deeply ignorant. And that's the most charitable thing I can say. I have about the same view of Islam that I do of Catholicism. Anyone who thinks that Osama Bin Laden is simply following Islamic law is an idiot. He is not. That does not mean that Islamic law is enlightened. It's not. It employs corporal punishment for moral transgressions. It allows that stoning of women for comitting adultery (it's about as barbaric as the Old Testament) but Usama Bin Laden is not an orthodox Muslim. He is not a religious scholar nor is he a Caliph. He has no authority to declair Jihad or issue fatwas. Islam does not enjoin individuals to target innocent civilians for the sake of targeting them.

[PhuturePriest]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1331266648' post='2398064']
That man is deeply ignorant. And that's the most charitable thing I can say. I have about the same view of Islam that I do of Catholicism. Anyone who thinks that Osama Bin Laden is simply following Islamic law is an idiot. He is not. That does not mean that Islamic law is enlightened. It's not. It employs corporal punishment for moral transgressions. It allows that stoning of women for comitting adultery (it's about as barbaric as the Old Testament) but Usama Bin Laden is not an orthodox Muslim. He is not a religious scholar nor is he a Caliph. He has no authority to declair Jihad or issue fatwas. Islam does not enjoin individuals to target innocent civilians for the sake of targeting them.
[/quote]

Do you know that if you walk down a street in Mecca with even a small crucifix you'll be killed on the spot? Talk about religious tolerance.

[PhuturePriest]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1331266648' post='2398064']
That man is deeply ignorant. And that's the most charitable thing I can say. I have about the same view of Islam that I do of Catholicism. Anyone who thinks that Osama Bin Laden is simply following Islamic law is an idiot. He is not. That does not mean that Islamic law is enlightened. It's not. It employs corporal punishment for moral transgressions. It allows that stoning of women for comitting adultery (it's about as barbaric as the Old Testament) but Usama Bin Laden is not an orthodox Muslim. He is not a religious scholar nor is he a Caliph. He has no authority to declair Jihad or issue fatwas. Islam does not enjoin individuals to target innocent civilians for the sake of targeting them.
[/quote]

It's not ignorance. You don't even know the guy. He was there, as he states. He lost people he knew. Have you ever even read the Quran? I would assume no. If you haven't read it you can't comment on it. That's like me defending The Hunger Games, even though I've never seen the movies or read a single word from the books.

Edited March 9, 2012 by FuturePriest387

[4588686]

[quote name='FuturePriest387' timestamp='1331266831' post='2398070']
It's not ignorance. You don't even know the guy. He was there, as he states. He lost people he knew. Have you ever even read the Quran? I would assume no. If you haven't read it you can't comment on it. That's like me defending The Hunger Games, even though I've never seen the movies or read a single word from the books.
[/quote]

First of all, having a friend killed by Muslis doesn't make you an expert on Islam, Muslims, or the Muslim world. I've had several friends who survived the wars in Yugoslavia. That doesn't make them experts on Orthodox Christianity. Secondly, I have read the Quran. I've read several commentaries on the Qur'an. A number of Hadith. Several texts on Shaira' law as well as a wide number of Islamic thinkers. Including Seyyed Qutb (the man who essentially founded Usama Bin Laden's philosophy). I don't know the man. But I do know enough about the subject to know that he doesn't know what he's talking about.

[Guest]

I just read the article. Agree with everything he said. Thanks for posting.

Edited March 9, 2012 by Guest

[PhuturePriest]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1331267301' post='2398072']
First of all, having a friend killed by Muslis doesn't make you an expert on Islam, Muslims, or the Muslim world. I've had several friends who survived the wars in Yugoslavia. That doesn't make them experts on Orthodox Christianity. Secondly, I have read the Quran. I've read several commentaries on the Qur'an. A number of Hadith. Several texts on Shaira' law as well as a wide number of Islamic thinkers. Including Seyyed Qutb (the man who essentially founded Usama Bin Laden's philosophy). I don't know the man. But I do know enough about the subject to know that he doesn't know what he's talking about.
[/quote]

Even if you're educated it doesn't mean you know it as well as he does. He's obviously very well educated in it as well, as he knows the exact dates and how it is not in chronological order. If you've been so well taught you should've seen the quotes that literally say to kill all infidels.

[Jaime]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1331255686' post='2397985']
I have been something of a Johnsonville brat the last little while as controversy over the contraception mandate has raged here. And I have been trying to figure out why it has touched such a raw nerve. And I suppose that this is the answer: gays and Muslims. I remember seeing so many of the same individuals here who so bemoan the encroachment of their religious liberty during the 2008 Presidential election being all to happy to encourage the asinine rumors that Barak Obama was a Muslim with the side insinuation that as a secret Muslim with a questionable birthplace he should not be supported as a candidate and represented a unique threat to American democracy. Many of the same people here, who are members of a powerful religious voting block, were happy to defend the xenophobia and and anti-Muslim bigotry that suffused the right wing during those times and was directed to a small and politically impotent religious minority. Many of those same people were also happy to attack the attempt to build a Muslim cultural, the disingenuously nicknamed 'Ground Zero Mosque.' I didn't see any rapping Priests making eloquent songs about how we all need to stand together against the actual encroachment of religious freedom that had bombarded the Muslim community for over a decade now. From attempts to stop them from building mosques to federal attempts to infiltrate university student groups. I see this same eagerness to use your religious beliefs to lambaste the gay community and curb their civil rights.

I guess what I'm saying is that I see nothing principled in this sanctimony. If religious freedom for it's own sake were really a priority then there have been many causes over the years for this community to rally around. Instead, I have seen only justifications and encouragement when a politically unpopular religious group was having their freedom and character run roughshod.

That has been my perspective and I am sure that it is not totally fair and I do apologize for being particularly obnoxious over the past week or so.
[/quote]

There are a lot of things going on here that just don't smell right Hasan. Let's deal with the most ridiculous first

[quote]...Presidential election being all to happy to encourage the asinine rumors that Barak Obama was a Muslim with the side insinuation that as a secret Muslim with a questionable birthplace he should not be supported as a candidate and represented a unique threat to American democracy.
[/quote]

I've been around too. I have seen a few people make those assertions but it's literally been a few and you know full well, they come in to spout anti muslim carp and then leave. Nobody takes them seriously. Now there are a large amount of people here who find a ton of fault with Obama without the hint of him being born elsewhere or being a secret anything.

[quote] I didn't see any rapping Priests making eloquent songs about how we all need to stand together against the actual encroachment of religious freedom that had bombarded the Muslim community for over a decade now.[/quote]

Show me where the government has tried to restrict the practices of the Muslim community. Show me where the government forced muslims to go against the core beliefs of their faith? Has there been prejudice towards muslims? Yes and it's wrong. But there's been a ton of anti Catholic croutons for the past decade too and no one has rapped about that. I have a good amount of muslim friends and I feel bad for them when someone mocks Allah or burns a Koran. But I get asked directly to my face why I choose to follow pedophiles. I get to see videos of my Eucharist being desecrated. And my president wants to tell me that my faith is wrong while he apologizes to muslims for acts of atrocities against their faith. Obama is trying to mandate against our core beliefs. And I can promise you that if Obama outlawed Kosher meals, Catholics would be just as vocal.

I am not going to apologize for defending my faith. Nor am I going to feel bad that I haven't defended someone else's faith to your standard.