I Am Scandalized

[Siena]

I am scandalized by the politicking by priests and church officials. Render unto Caesar and all that.

Priests aren't talking about loving God and developing a closer relationship with Him anymore - it's all manufactured NCCB talking points geared to swaying MY vote to the GOP. The church has gotten into bed with war-mongers and racists in order to enshrine Catholic teachings into American law, and this is wrong wrong wrong.

Seeing some of the posts here, and following links, I feel that the church has lost Christ. Priests are now mouthpieces for a Roman Catholic powergrab, and I am truly horrified and scandalized by the unChristlike ideas I hear from men in collars and lay people who profess to be Roman Catholic.

I will not be back to this forum. Delete my account please.

[eagle_eye222001]

[quote name='Siena' timestamp='1331245467' post='2397894']
I am scandalized by the politicking by priests and church officials. Render unto Caesar and all that.

Priests aren't talking about loving God and developing a closer relationship with Him anymore - it's all manufactured NCCB talking points geared to swaying MY vote to the GOP. The church has gotten into bed with war-mongers and racists in order to enshrine Catholic teachings into American law, and this is wrong wrong wrong.

Seeing some of the posts here, and following links, I feel that the church has lost Christ. Priests are now mouthpieces for a Roman Catholic powergrab, and I am truly horrified and scandalized by the unChristlike ideas I hear from men in collars and lay people who profess to be Roman Catholic.

I will not be back to this forum. Delete my account please.
[/quote]

I am scandalized by the Catholics who throw away the faith in public and private.

Our faith does not end at the closet door, but must be a light to the whole world. If we do not stand up for our faith, and vote accordingly, we are hypocrites like the Pharisees.

If our bishops and priests do not profess the moral teachings of the Church, then what good do they do us?

No, Jesus is not running for political office, so likely there will be a candidate who does not encompass all the teachings of Christ. Still we have a religious duty to vote for the best of the common good. Such a search may be difficult as their is no "Jesus Party," however such a search reminds us why it is important that we understand our faith, so that it aids us in life principles.

We should remember that Christ said He would never leave His Church. In Matthew 16:18, Jesus promises Peter that the gates of Hell will never prevail against the Church. In the very last verse of Matthew 28:20, Jesus promises His Apostles (and therefore their successors), that He will be with them until the end of the age. I don't think Jesus was kidding here....although people within the church have certainly caused great scandal from time to time, we can count on the teachings that come from Her.

Many of Christ's followers will stray (look at the 12 Apostles and how often they doubted or messed up), however we can always count on the consistent moral teachings of the Church to guide us. It is the grace of God that the leaders of the church may still sin, yet still teach with confidence.


I am sorry to see you go. If you would like to discuss something privately and confidentially, feel free to PM me. If you would like to expand on one of your points, go ahead and start a thread on it, and I'll do my best to ensure a charitable discussion.

Regardless, you'll be in my prayers.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Siena' timestamp='1331245467' post='2397894'] I am scandalized by the politicking by priests and church officials. Render unto Caesar and all that. Priests aren't talking about loving God and developing a closer relationship with Him anymore - it's all manufactured NCCB talking points geared to swaying MY vote to the GOP. The church has gotten into bed with war-mongers and racists in order to enshrine Catholic teachings into American law, and this is wrong wrong wrong. Seeing some of the posts here, and following links, I feel that the church has lost Christ. Priests are now mouthpieces for a Roman Catholic powergrab, and I am truly horrified and scandalized by the unChristlike ideas I hear from men in collars and lay people who profess to be Roman Catholic. I will not be back to this forum. Delete my account please. [/quote]

i wouldn't expect someone who has the email address of [email="thankgodforprezobama@hotmail.com"]thankgodforprezobama@hotmail.com[/email] to understand what being a Catholic is actually about, considering you're thanking God for one of the most pro-abortion Presidents this country has ever had. of course, if you don't have a problem with that, that says a lot about you as a Catholic. it doesn't sound like you're interested in dialogue at all, you just want to try to "shame" us for something, i guess?

in other words, don't let the door hit ya where the Good Lord split ya.

[arfink]

[img]http://www.nerowolfe.org/nwm/nwm_cast/image/MC.jpg[/img]

[size=7][b]PFUI![/b][/size]

Edited March 9, 2012 by arfink

[Groo the Wanderer]

nccb? Roman Catholic powergrab? you mean like from the Byzantine Catholics or Maronite Catholics?


methinks the lady doth protest too much...and from an old script

[arfink]

[quote name='Siena' timestamp='1331245467' post='2397894']
Priests aren't talking about loving God and developing a closer relationship with Him anymore - it's all manufactured NCCB talking points geared to swaying MY vote to the GOP. The church has gotten into bed with war-mongers and racists in order to enshrine Catholic teachings into American law, and this is wrong wrong wrong.
[/quote]

I might just point out that we have had an entire Lenten series from our own beloved Fr. Pontifex which has nothing to do with politics at all. You might want to see that.

Also we have the lame board, which has nothing to do with... anything.

[Adrestia]

The 1st Amendment is kind of a big deal. Just sayin'

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Siena' timestamp='1331245467' post='2397894']
I am scandalized by the politicking by priests and church officials. Render unto Caesar and all that.

Priests aren't talking about loving God and developing a closer relationship with Him anymore - it's all manufactured NCCB talking points geared to swaying MY vote to the GOP. The church has gotten into bed with war-mongers and racists in order to enshrine Catholic teachings into American law, and this is wrong wrong wrong.

Seeing some of the posts here, and following links, I feel that the church has lost Christ. Priests are now mouthpieces for a Roman Catholic powergrab, and I am truly horrified and scandalized by the unChristlike ideas I hear from men in collars and lay people who profess to be Roman Catholic.

I will not be back to this forum. Delete my account please.
[/quote]

Priests and Bishops talk about loving God on a daily basis. But morals don't and will not every stop at the inside step of the Church, they actually apply to our daily lives. As american citizens they have a right and duty to speak up about the important issues of the day. And as for enshrining christian or catholic beliefs into, start by reading the basic document of America society, which start out talking about GOD: [color=#000000][font=Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, Tahoma,]We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their [b]Creator[/b] with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. [/font][/color]

We do have separation of Church and state, but the current mess was CREATED by the state, specifically by Mr Obama who is attempting to interfere with the rights of religious entities to regulate themselves.

I am scandalized by someone who claims to be Catholic and likes Mr Obama , ya know the guy who thinks its ok to slaughter babies who survive abortion, detain citizens or kill them without due process and violate the Constitution. We actually believe "thou shalt not murder" applies to everyone starting with unborn babies, which is why we targets of hatemongers and false propaganda by people claiming to be catholic. ..
If you were Catholic you would also know we are not particularly Roman Catholics here, (there are 20+ kinds) simply faithful to the teachings of the Church.
Nobody said you have to vote the GOP. but you sure as hellfire can't vote for Obama and be a faithful Catholic.
We don't delete accounts here either.

[cmaD2006]

[quote name='Siena' timestamp='1331245467' post='2397894']
I will not be back to this forum. Delete my account please.
[/quote]

You only have 8 posts, which means you're new to the Phorum (but yes, you may have been lurking).

One critical and important question comes to mind ...

[b][size=6][color=#ff0000]Why did you create it in the first place?[/color] [/size][/b]

and I think I know the answer ....

[size=1]a) to waste our time[/size]
[size=1]b) to change our focus from what is important to trying to answer you.[/size]

[size=4]Ciao amiga! Blessings and graces during this Lent, especially for conversion.[/size]

[Marie-Therese]

I LOLed.

[eagle_eye222001]

Not happy with some of you PM people in this thread.


There are some people who are in quite sorts........and they don't need to be antagonized.

[Slappo]

[quote name='Siena' timestamp='1331245467' post='2397894']
I am scandalized by the politicking by priests and church officials. Render unto Caesar and all that.
[/quote]
I don't have to render unto Caesar the rights and freedoms given to me by the natural law, nor can Caesar put into effect a law which is contrary to the natural law.

Abortion is contrary to the natural law
The use of contraceptives is contrary to the natural law (not to mention when you are forced to subsidize them)
Torture is contrary to the natural law (this would effect the GOP candidates FYI)
Gay marriage is contrary to the natural law
Unjust wars are contrary to the natural law (another one for those GOP'ers we all "love so much" here)


It is also the duty of a priest and bishop to lead his faithful. If the government is enforcing or endorsing things contrary to the natural law it is the moral obligation priests and bishops to speak out against such repugnance. Feeding the hungry is a corporal work of mercy, but admonishing the sinner and instructing the ignorant are spiritual works of mercy.

Edited March 9, 2012 by Slappo

[Aloysius]

okay, so, assuming this person really left, then this was a sort of trolling flame-bait... and we're arguing inside an echo chamber, but I'll say this in case she ever comes back and sees this: though you and I will disagree fundamentally on many things politically, and those things will indeed touch at the heart of what we believe about morality which is indeed a subject related to our faith, I recognize that you and I share a common baptism and I don't want to let the slimy politics of modern life drive a wedge in between that.

See, there's some validity to her point here (only some); I sometimes feel among some groups of Catholics that it is a sort of political club you're supposed to belong to if you call yourself "Catholic", a sort of social group with a shared political idealogy... and that's it, or at least that's primary. we ought to remember that we're not just a political block, we're not just a sub-culture that shares a certain idealogical twist on things, we're not just a social club... much more than sharing any kind of political idealogy, as Catholics we ought to share faith, that's at the heart of it.

in short, [i]"we all tend to one mistake; we tend to make politics too important. We tend to forget how huge a part of a man's life is the same under a Sultan and a Senate, under Nero or St Louis. Daybreak is a never-ending glory, getting out of bed is a never-ending nuisance; food and friends will be welcomed; work and strangers must be accepted and endured; birds will go bedwards and children won't, to the end of the last evening." [/i]-GK Chesterton

we're united in FAITH, not mere human idealogy, and we sometimes allow these murky, slimy, petty human politics of the present age divide us where they shouldn't. that's not to say Catholics ought not be reprimanded if they fall for pro-choice lies, because being pro-life is a fundamental part of Catholic morality, but ultimately a lot of the politicking within Catholic circles fails to recognize the sheer unimportance of politics in the light of eternity; even in the light of mortality it's not all that important... "if voting actually changed anything, it'd be illegal"... I mean, I agree that all Catholics ought to be pro-life and I agree that public figures promoting abortions should be reprimanded, but I get a little bit queasy when I see Fr. Z put out a canon 915 mug that seems to be celebrating this kind of ugly infighting, or in general when I see so much emphasis put on partisanship among Catholics, because I just see this rift penetrating the Church from the silly political theatre that pretends to be democracy and it breaks my heart that Catholics can't see through it and not let it tear through the Body of Christ as much as it sometimes seems to.

of course, the contraception mandate issue ought not to be partisan. it's not even [i]necessarily[/i] a presidential election issue, the bishops and priests speaking out right now are calling on HHS and Obama to rescind this mandate, they want the Supreme Court to overturn this mandate, they want the congress to nullify this mandate with legislation that respects consciences. whoever the next president is, whether it's Obama, Romney, Ron Paul, or Roseann (yes, she's running lol, look it up), we don't want the federal government forcing Catholics to pay for things that violate their consciences.

[cmaD2006]

[quote name='eagle_eye222001' timestamp='1331273664' post='2398132']
Not happy with some of you PM people in this thread.


There are some people who are in quite sorts........and they don't need to be antagonized.
[/quote]

I think she was a troll. You can tell by her post count. Now, if she had been on pm posting for a while (say 300-400 posts) then that's a whole other story.

Look ... all of us who are Catholic need to make a decision with respect to who we are voting for. All candidates have pros and cons, and its not as simple as saying "I'm not voting for this candidate because they are pro-choice" or "I'm not voting for this candidate because they are pro-gay marriage" or any other number of issues.

Right now personally, I don't like any of the candidates. At all. I have no idea who I am voting for -- and the last time we had a presidential election I missed this whole ordeal by being out of the country (and the religious community I was with did not let me work on getting an absentee ballot).

My flame to the op was *because* she was a troll, not because of political views.

[Annie12]

The catholic bishops only speak the truth that the church teaches. Being upset at the Church is a personal decision that I would encourage you to not to do. I hope you can find happiness in the Church. I will pray for you.

Edited March 12, 2012 by Annie12