Catholicvote Endorses Rick Santorum

[Basilisa Marie]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1331927498' post='2401933']
Catholics are free to support the death penalty.
[/quote]

No, we're not. Not in places that have other options for hard criminals.

[quote][b][url="http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c2a5.htm"]2267[/url][/b][color=#202020][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=3] Assuming that the guilty party's identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#202020][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=3]If, however, non-lethal means are sufficient to defend and protect people's safety from the aggressor, authority will limit itself to such means, as these are more in keeping with the concrete conditions of the common good and more in conformity to the dignity of the human person.[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#202020][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=3]Today, in fact, as a consequence of the possibilities which the state has for effectively preventing crime, by rendering one who has committed an offense incapable of doing harm - without definitely taking away from him the possibility of redeeming himself - the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity [b]"are very rare, if not practically nonexistent."[/b][/size][/font][/color][/quote]

Edited March 17, 2012 by Basilisa Marie

[LaPetiteSoeur]

[quote name='Basilisa Marie' timestamp='1331945434' post='2402059']
No, we're not. Not in places that have other options for hard criminals.
[/quote]

I thought being pro-life was all about "from conception until natural death." From what I know of executions (and my state is a MAJOR death penalty state), injecting people with potassium chloride isn't natural, hanging people isn't natural death, shooting them isn't a natural death, and electrocuting them isn't a natural death, either.

In an age with maximum security prisons, the death penalty is no longer necessary in this country. I thought pro-life meant respecting the dignity of every human person, not just the innocents, and not just babies.

Edited March 17, 2012 by LaPetiteSoeur

[Nihil Obstat]

Aww yeah, here we go!!

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Basilisa Marie' timestamp='1331945434' post='2402059']
No, we're not. Not in places that have other options for hard criminals.
[/quote]

My point is Mr Santorum's support of the death penalty doesn't disqualify him as a faithful Catholic. Feel free to check the hundreds of threads on this topic, or start a new one.

[qfnol31]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1331948766' post='2402122']
My point is Mr Santorum's support of the death penalty doesn't disqualify him as a faithful Catholic. Feel free to check the hundreds of threads on this topic, or start a new one.
[/quote]Do a search for my name plus the death penalty. I'm sure it'll come up. I've managed to get a few separate threads closed on the matter.

Catholics can support the death penalty and still present themselves as worthy for Holy Communion (meaning that they haven't gone against the Church), but the same cannot be said for those who support abortion or euthanasia, etc. This is a sort of litmus test that helps determine what a person can and cannot support. The reason a Catholic in good standing can support the death penalty (or even just war) is because there are many contingent factors that come into play, some of which don't fall under the determination of the Church. These due circumstances have the ability to transform the act from one kind of act to another, from a fine act to an evil act, and these circumstances do not all contain a moral quality (such as the ability to hold a person indefinitely without great risk).

Now the bishops and the Holy Father push against the death penalty for many great reasons (the desire to kill people is against the culture of life), but it will always be up to the state's discretion and prudential judgment to enforce this extreme measure.


Now torture cannot be supported and I've been clear on this before. I think that waterboarding counts as torture (though some people are mistaken and don't think it does), so this leads to confusion even amongst faithful Catholics. This has become evident even on this board that not everyone believes that waterboarding is torture.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='qfnol31' timestamp='1331949925' post='2402160']
Do a search for my name plus the death penalty. I'm sure it'll come up. I've managed to get a few separate threads closed on the matter.
[/quote]

If you do it here I will make you stand in the corner. I want to hear all the things this poster thinks is wrong with Mr Santorum.

[qfnol31]

[quote name='XIX' timestamp='1331930959' post='2401957']
What's stopping them now?[/quote]In our country the law prevents such actions, and this is a good thing.
[quote]Not really...my understanding is that gay couples (for example) are allowed to play house all they want. Nobody's getting arrested if they go into a small church and says vows without the government's permission. It'll just be ignored by the government instead of certified.

[color=#282828]I will say that government intervention with regard to adoption makes more sense, but I don't understand the analogy you are making...[/color][/quote]They are allowed to play house but in about 85% of America their relationship is not recognized as marriage. That's important and shows one of the good possible outcomes of laws on marriage.

The adoption issue was meant to show that marriage must be a governmental matter because of the effect it can have on adoption cases (one of many different possible reaches of marriage laws). Without any sort of governmental influence on marriage then the whole idea of family will be destroyed in our society.

[qfnol31]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1331950111' post='2402162']
If you do it here I will make you stand in the corner. I want to hear all the things this poster thinks is wrong with Mr Santorum.
[/quote]I promise to be on my best behavior!

[Basilisa Marie]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1331948766' post='2402122']
My point is Mr Santorum's support of the death penalty doesn't disqualify him as a faithful Catholic. Feel free to check the hundreds of threads on this topic, or start a new one.
[/quote]

And my point is that my interpretation of the Catechism leaves absolutely no room for the use of the death penalty in the United States today, and that I have a hard time understanding how people can complain all day about living in a "Culture of Death" but then have absolutely no problem with trusting the state to inflict the death penalty with any kind of appropriate "moral discretion." Give me a break.

Or maybe I just don't understand how "only possible way" doesn't mean "only possible way."

I will not say that Santorum isn't a faithful Catholic. You can be a faithful Catholic and be wrong about something like this, because there's the appropriate wiggle room. I will say that he's not the perfect Catholic I have seen many people make him out to be.

[quote][color=#282828]This has become evident even on this board that not everyone believes that waterboarding is torture. [/color][/quote]

Edited March 17, 2012 by Basilisa Marie

[the171]

I was going to say something, but I realized that if I did, someone was going to post an article with shady "facts" and sources. So never mind. Can we just vote for ANYONE BUT OBAMA??!!!? Let's have SOME sort of unifications. Now, does anyone know when Santorum or Gingirch are coming down to Louisiana?

[LaPetiteSoeur]

[quote name='the171' timestamp='1331956430' post='2402235']
I was going to say something, but I realized that if I did, someone was going to post an article with shady "facts" and sources. So never mind. Can we just vote for ANYONE BUT OBAMA??!!!? Let's have SOME sort of unifications. Now, does anyone know when Santorum or Gingirch are coming down to Louisiana?
[/quote]

Santorum was in Lafayette yesterday, or Thursday....and he's still here. Gingrich is going to be in NOLA soon.

[the171]

LET'S MEET IN LAFFY ASAP!!! I MUST CONVINCE HIM TO GO TO LAFFY CARM! Sr.MJ and the rest of the monastery, they love Santorum. Hahahah! That'd be great. Hey sister, I have a surprise! I can't put it through the turn style though....

[kujo]

[font="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"]Woops[/font]

Edited March 17, 2012 by kujo

[kujo]

[font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif][quote name='truthlvr' timestamp='1331779464' post='2400921']
He's not afraid to share what his beliefs are without forcing them on others.
[/quote][/font]

[font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]You [color=#000000]mean other than his beliefs about pornography?[/color][/font]

[font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif][url="http://www.nydailynews.com/news/election-2012/rick-santorum-declares-war-pornography-i-ban-hardcore-porn-elected-president-article-1.1040728"]http://www.nydailyne...ticle-1.1040728[/url][/font]

[left]Rick Santorum wants to use his power as President of the United States to[i] ban pornography[/i]. Therein lies the problem with the modern Republican party--they've all bought into the fallacy that the federal government ought to be a prime mover in your daily life. At least Democrats use this belief to justify feeding poor people, teaching children to read, and keeping the air we breathe fro[color=#333333]m being too filled with carbon dioxide[/color][color=#333333]. Republicans use it to listen to our private conversations, "de[/color][color=#333333]mocratize" other countries, [/color][color=#333333]and tell people who and how you can marry and have sex![/color][/left]

[left][color=#333333]A[/color][color=#333333]s Winchester and others have elucidated far better than I, Rick Santoru[/color][color=#333333]m, Newt Gingrich and [/color][color=#000000]Mitt Ro[/color][color=#333333]mney are ALL progressives of one sort or another. If you think voting for the[/color][color=#333333]m represents any sort of significant change fro[/color][/left]
[left][color=#333333]m Oba[/color][color=#333333]ma or Bush or essentially any president in the last century, you need to pick up a copy of the Federalist Papers and try to reconcile these candidates' policy positions and their philosophical underpinnings. You'll quickly find that they are just as wrong as the leftists in this country, and for the sa[/color][color=#333333]me reasons![/color][/left]

[font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif][quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1331845501' post='2401385']
No. Because government is not our parent, it has no say in my private, peaceful (in the vulgar sense) actions. I am not in submission to this government. It is not a monarchy. You want people to pay into the system and then be penalized for not conforming. A quick way to end this problem would be to remove all financial benefits associated with marriage through government fiat (including the insurance regulations). Even with the marriage licensing in place (and I am astounded you don't find it repellent that grown people have to be "licensed" to be married), this would likely not have come to be such an issue but for the special favors granted to some people for jumping through hoops.
[/quote][/font]

[font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Dude, if it were legal, I would absolutely [/font][color=#333333][font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif][left]marry this post![/left][/font][/color]

[qfnol31]

[quote name='LaPetiteSoeur' timestamp='1331958221' post='2402241']
Santorum was in Lafayette yesterday, or Thursday....and he's still here. Gingrich is going to be in NOLA soon.
[/quote]He's there now, I'm pretty sure. On Facebook tonight Calista had a picture with an acquaintance of mine from there.