Odd Situation, Advise Requested

[Marie-Therese]

Well my friend, I have a question for you. If this series of dinners seems strictly to be a platform for recruitment for their church, why would you go back to another? It seems that by going with Shea the first time, you accomplished what you needed to--supporting your wife and being available to her. Beyond that, dunno why you'd want to go back. I'd ask Shea that, too, honestly. Why would she want to go to another four dinners? Not attending these functions doesn't seem like it has anything to do with her mothers' group or any of her other mutual activities with this church. I mean, if it's because it's supposed to be a theology conversation, then that's one thing. But it didn't sound like that to me.

Imho, it sounds like if the pastor wanted a practicing Catholic there to talk theology, it wouldn't have been to edify themselves on theological issues. This is an established community with a fairly complex history, it sounds. They aren't looking to have their views disproven. Your job as the Catholic was to present views in opposition to theirs, so they could shoot you down. Perhaps it would never have been framed that way, but I can't see anything past that. I highly doubt that a church trying to recruit would be eager to host a series of dinners wherein they vigorously debated someone with disparate theology and had any intention of coming out looking like the loser. That would pretty much kill a recruitment drive, eh? The point was to make themselves look good.

Were it me, I'd give Shea major snuggles, tell her you love her. Tell her your evening was very pleasant and you enjoy her company. If another dinner comes up, just state that you don't see the value in your presence at events that seem to be church recruitment sessions, as you obviously have no intention of attending that church. Plain and simple.

Of course, I'm me, so take my advice fwiw.

[MissyP89]

I think you did the right thing. Lots of props for being able to sit there, wriggle in your seat and try to listen ... I'm not sure how well I would have faired in your shoes.

Sometimes, you have to pick your battles. It sounds like you were there to support Shea and that is what you did.

Beyond that, I can't help but think you were there as a "plant" for the pastor's needs. So many people these days in Protestant churches are fallen away Catholics, and the best way to win converts in that situation is to show "their" theology to be superior to the Church's. That's what it was like for me during my brief stint as an evangelical -- a whole lot of "this is why Catholicism is wrong."

I think you are well above that kind of treatment, and I agree with Peyton. You probably shouldn't go back, especially if it's their equivalent of RCIA.

This, however, was amazing:

[quote]They mentioned they needed to split as the people they split from, 'no longer followed the Bible', which elicited a wide, ironic smile from me.[/quote]

And as for this:

[quote]"Someone very high up said that 'in Jesus' eyes, you two aren't married'". She seemed visibly hurt by this and well, a bit pissed off. I thought, how many times have I acted in a way where I was the freaking 'hammer of truth' and I was 'giving the truth, and by-golly that's what true charity is', without handling the situation like I was talking to a person, but some compilations of rules and regulations. I said what a horrible thing that was to say; and I meant it.[/quote]

I know this situation all too well -- walking that fragile line between telling the Truth and being truly compassionate. We should talk about this soon.

You did good, dude. And I have so much respect for you. <3

[Slappo]

[quote name='MIkolbe' timestamp='1331144178' post='2397272']
Thank you for those kind words...Unfortunately, the more I learn about our faith, the more i realize how incredibly much I don't know....

and Papist when you say this may be their only chance to hear some real Catholic teachings on stuff...I must admit i thought the same thing, and honestly, that scares me. [b] If it's true, or even somewhat true, why me and not like Alysious or someone 'smart'? You see what I mean? I fear I am not good enough. [/b]These guys have had years of theological training, and I just kinda like to read stuff. You see what I mean? Perhaps this is a cowardice issue on my end that I just have to get over. But I would be lying if I said thses feelings aren't there...
[/quote]

This might sound silly, but that sounds like the voice of pride trying to pick at you and prevent you from doing something good. I don't at all doubt that those are strong feelings, but don't give in to them.

Humility is to understand that even as weak as you are and as little you may know about the faith compared to others, God can still use you as a Catholic, with the little orthodox knowledge you have, to effect others.

I have a bachelor's in theology, and I get schooled all the time by my lay friends that have no theological background, because they live the knowledge that I have. They live it, and I just know it. Sometimes I wish I could be more ignorant and more in love with God, than knowledgeable and lacksadaisical in my faith.

[MissScripture]

[quote name='MIkolbe' timestamp='1331144178' post='2397272']
Thank you for those kind words...Unfortunately, the more I learn about our faith, the more i realize how incredibly much I don't know....

and Papist when you say this may be their only chance to hear some real Catholic teachings on stuff...I must admit i thought the same thing, and honestly, that scares me. If it's true, or even somewhat true, why me and not like Alysious or someone 'smart'? You see what I mean? I fear I am not good enough. These guys have had years of theological training, and I just kinda like to read stuff. You see what I mean? Perhaps this is a cowardice issue on my end that I just have to get over. But I would be lying if I said thses feelings aren't there...
[/quote]
I think a lot of people have asked God the "why me" question...Moses comes to mind. That being said, maybe you need to spend some time asking God what he wants you to do, and if you really are supposed to be there. If you are, then you better go, or you might end up in the belly of a whale.

[eagle_eye222001]

It would have been rude.....improper.....and uncharitable to literally speak up on every tiny-wrong thing the pastor said. Even if you spoke up with what you agreed on, you would have been seen as this person who had to interrupt every 5 seconds and blurt out some great knowledge....whether good or bad.....it would have come across as rude to many people.

In my opinion, you acted quite appropriately. You made an objection at something that was clearly wrong or misleading (the 70 hour Baptism School), but you did so in a good manner as pointing out that this 70 hour thing wasn't widespread as it might have been perceived by the crowd. In such settings, it is best to save your interruptions for the issues that clearly malign or misrepresent the Church...which the 70 hour thing qualifies as.

When you ran into the woman and the annulment she didn't get, you gave a quite appropriated response. Such an event is not a time to get into a 20 minute discussion of why she is still wrong....such is quite the opportunity to come across as a caring praying person. This woman needs to see prayerful caring Catholics over this difficult situation.

[quote name='MIkolbe' timestamp='1331128764' post='2397183']They mentioned they needed to split as the people they split from, 'no longer followed the Bible'[/quote]




If the pastor wanted a Catholic comment on everything, it should have been much more explicit to you and the group. Then the group would understand that your interruptions were not rude, but planned, and they would have a tendency to listen more.

Knowing when to speak up and when to shut up can be difficult....but your actions seemed pretty obvious to me. If you speak up too much, people stop listening. Have to make the one or two interruptions count.

[4588686]

Baptism and the Eucharist are the two 'Sacraments of the Gospel' in Anglican Christianity.

[eagle_eye222001]

I echo the advice of all the previous posters.

[quote name='MIkolbe' timestamp='1331144178' post='2397272']
Thank you for those kind words...Unfortunately, the more I learn about our faith, the more i realize how incredibly much I don't know....

and Papist when you say this may be their only chance to hear some real Catholic teachings on stuff...I must admit i thought the same thing, and honestly, that scares me. If it's true, or even somewhat true, why me and not like Alysious or someone 'smart'? You see what I mean? I fear I am not good enough. These guys have had years of theological training, and I just kinda like to read stuff. You see what I mean? Perhaps this is a cowardice issue on my end that I just have to get over. But I would be lying if I said thses feelings aren't there...
[/quote]

We just have to go out and say what we can. If we waited until we were all doctorates in theology, the Word of God would never go anywhere. We have to take the risk that we say something slightly wrong. I have mishandled situations in the past, but I figure that I was doing my best, and if God wants His message to get out, He's going to have to cough up some grace.

If you find yourself in a situation again where your not quite sure what to say....maybe just drop a line about catholic.com. They have a bunch of tracts that deal with basically anything you'll encounter, and if your feeling inadequate, explain as best you can, but then end with referring them to catholic.com and suggesting they do a word search.

[cmotherofpirl]

Be honest. You don't need all the answers, you simply need to say "I'll look it up so I can explain it better", and make a time to continue the conversation. Most people don't want long detailed theological explanations ( the minister would be the exception) just a simple "we do this and here is why".

[krissylou]

If they wanted you there as a foil so they could clarify themselves by distancing from "that wrongheaded Catholic guy over there" then they're jerks and you should have no part of it.

But I kind of doubt that's what was meant.

I think it's more likely that what Shea meant (and maybe she had this conversation with the pastors or maybe she's assuming) that when intelligent people who get into theology get together, the resulting conversations are very interesting and enlightening and just plain enjoyable. And for someone to self-censor can be a bummer. Not that you should take over the conversation, or show why THEY are wrong on every point, that'd be jerky too, but be yourself.