Theology On Tap Asked To Leave Bar

[Papist]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1330959118' post='2396488']
That's not religious liberty. You don't have a right to have a meeting in a bar against the bar owner's will.
[/quote]

I organized Theology on Tap events. It is standard to work with the restaurant/bar for the event. Unless, I missed it in the article, I would think they did the same. I doubt the restaurant/bar manager/owner did not know of the event, and did not anticipate the reactions of staff and non-participating customers.

Edited March 5, 2012 by Papist

[4588686]

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1330960241' post='2396502']
I organized Theology on Tap events. It is standard to work with the restaurant/bar for the event. Unless, I missed it in the article, I would think they did the same. I doubt the restaurant/bar manager/owner did not know of the event, and did not anticipate the reactions of staff and non-participating customers.
[/quote]

He did. And then the bar owner didn't like the tone. If I had to listen to a leader of a politically powerful block beesh about how oppressed he is I'd probably find it grating as well. But now supposed he asked them not to return. At no point is anyone's religious freedom or liberty infringed upon in any way. If the bar owner changes his mind and decides to reinvite them then he is again within his rights. His rights are the issues here. You have no right to use someone else's bar for your meeting place. I don't see why this is an issue. I'm sure there are plenty of bars that would be happy to have their considerable business.

Religious liberty is an issue, according to the article. There are constant insinuations that this somehow exemplifies the Bishop's point that religious liberty is threatened.

Edited March 5, 2012 by Hasan

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1330959118' post='2396488']
That's not religious liberty. You don't have a right to have a meeting in a bar against the bar owner's will.
[/quote]

If they were in a private area of the bar they obviously HAD permission of the owner.

[4588686]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1330964538' post='2396520']
If they were in a private area of the bar they obviously HAD permission of the owner.
[/quote]

Well, from personal experience, I can say that's not actually obvious.

But that aside, I never said they were there against the owner's will. I said that if the owner has asked them to not return, as the article says, then that is no infringement against their religious liberty, as they have no right to hold their meeting there against the owner's will.

[4588686]

[quote name='brandelynmarie' timestamp='1330895554' post='2396196']
“I think we all recognize that there is a new mentality in America, one that has grave risks for all believers—and puts in jeopardy all faith-based movements for social change and renewal. An atheocracy is a dangerous place—morally and spiritually. ... We risk becoming a nation without a soul,
a people with no common purpose apart from material pursuits.”

[/quote]



It must be hard to

Preach it brother.

Poor thing.

Only 78.4% of the population is Christian. Nero could be here any day. And only 23.9% of the population is specifically Catholic. And important parts of that population are politically flexible and reside in swing state.

I bet the jackboots will be kicking down the Cathedral doors any day now. Because there is no group more vulnerable than a powerful voting block in key swing states that will be a major factor in determining who controls the government for the foreseeable future

Unlike those nasty atheists and gays that the Bishop is so brave in fighting. Secular unaffiliated Americans make up 6.3% of the population while gays make up almost 3.5% of the population. The pink, godless swastika is comeing and it's coming for Catholics.

Edited March 5, 2012 by Hasan

[Papist]

Only if the Bishop would say want people wanted to hear.

[4588686]

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1330966430' post='2396534']
Only if the Bishop would say want people wanted to hear.
[/quote]

What?

[arfink]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1330959118' post='2396488']
That's not religious liberty. You don't have a right to have a meeting in a bar against the bar owner's will.
[/quote]

I don't think the bishop was talking about religious liberty, or what you strictly have a right to do, but more about the general animus of society towards Christians who insist on living as Christians and not as re-branded secularists.

And while the bar owner certainly had the right to kick them out, it does display a high level of irony.

Edited March 5, 2012 by arfink

[Guest]

My question is what did they do to get kicked out ? What offended the staff ? I could see how if some of the staff wasn't religious and there were self righteous attitudes by the bishop or the catholics there, they could become offended. If this wasn't the case I don't see what the problem would be ? There had to be something that led up to the problem and if not then its pretty dumb.

[Papist]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' timestamp='1330978080' post='2396583']
My question is what did they do to get kicked out ? What offended the staff ? I could see how if some of the staff wasn't religious and there were self righteous attitudes by the bishop or the catholics there, they could become offended. If this wasn't the case I don't see what the problem would be ? There had to be something that led up to the problem and if not then its pretty dumb.
[/quote]

People complained that the Bishop was too Catholic.

[TheresaThoma]

This was what the Youth, Young Adult and Campus Ministry Office said about the incident from Facebook.
[quote]We at the Youth, Young Adult, & Campus Ministry Office regret to inform you that Theology on Tap Denver has been postponed until further notice. Stoney’s Bar & Grill has told us that they no longer wish to host TOT because it is “too controversial,” and some of the staff there have even refused to work the event if they host it again.

As far as we are concerned, we don’t think it was the topic that Bishop Conley spoke about that was too controversial considering that those sitting in the bar area outside of the TOT gathering could barely hear the talk. It would seem, rather, that it was the presence of a man in a collar that caused the dismay of a handful of their customers, and apparently, much of the staff. This is greatly unfortunate and disturbing to us because, while unwilling to serve us, the staff would not seem to be similarly dismayed at serving the type of customers that were uttering obscenities at our Bishop while he spoke. We would urge you to consider this when choosing Stoney’s as a place to hang out and have a drink with friends[color=#333333][size=2].[/size][/color][/quote]

It just seemed like a very odd situation all around but they did respect the owner's wishes and have successfully found a new location.

[Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam]

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1330950272' post='2396456']
The restaurant and the people there made the Bishop's point better than he did.
[/quote]
[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1330959118' post='2396488']
That's not religious liberty. You don't have a right to have a meeting in a bar against the bar owner's will.
[/quote]

The talk was not necessarily about religious liberty but rather general religious intolerance conveyed through the term "atheocracy." The term includes the general understanding that religious arguments, initiatives, and motivations--which at one point were a welcome part of American life--are now being increasingly marginalized in our culture and removed from political discourse as an invalid/biased reason for supporting an issue or is in some way anti-rational and not appropriate for political discussion. As such, the actions of the employees as well as of the owner support this general sentiment convey when discussing such a topic. One also sees such sentiments played out in the use of terms such as "freedom of worship" as opposed to "freedom of religion." While such terms aren't used often, they are a symptom and indicator of the general cultural shift the bishop here was pointing out. Also, I agree it is terribly unwise for business to ask a group of Catholics intent on visiting its bar regularly to not to come back.

Edited March 5, 2012 by Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam

[4588686]

[quote name='Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam' timestamp='1330989831' post='2396666']
The talk was not necessarily about religious liberty but rather general religious intolerance conveyed through the term "atheocracy." The term includes the general understanding that religious arguments, initiatives, and motivations--which at one point were a welcome part of American life--are now being increasingly marginalized in our culture and removed from political discourse as an invalid/biased reason for supporting an issue or is in some way anti-rational and not appropriate for political discussion. [/QUOTE]

[i][color=#282828] Just after speaking about society’s slow descent into adversity against[b] religious freedom[/b], the bishop administering the Catholic [/color][url="http://archden.org/"]ArchDiocese[/url][/i][color=#282828][i] of Denver found himself in a closer encounter with the subject than he’d anticipated[/i].[/color]



[color=#282828] [/color]
[color=#282828]It's difficult to say exactly what his point was. He seems to have been indulging in a general, ill-defined pitty party where he managed to conflate a few discrete ideas and trends into a general woe-is-me it's so hard to be a politically powerful religious block lament. [/color]

[QUOTE] As such, the actions of the employees as well as of the owner support this general sentiment convey when discussing such a topic. One also sees such sentiments played out in the use of terms such as "freedom of worship" as opposed to "freedom of religion." While such terms aren't used often, they are a symptom and indicator of the general cultural shift the bishop here was pointing out. [/QUOTE]

As is to be expected, it was unsupported point that he pulled out of his arse. Worship has historically been used in reference to religious freedom. James Madison used the term. As did a few other historical documents.

[QUOTE] Also, I agree it is terribly unwise for business to ask a group of Catholics intent on visiting its bar regularly to not to come back.
[/quote]

We'll see.

[vee]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1330995542' post='2396690']


As is to be expected, it was unsupported point that he pulled out of his arse.
[/quote]

like where you get all your info from?

[4588686]

[quote name='vee8' timestamp='1330996413' post='2396694']
like where you get all your info from?
[/quote]


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