People Who Don't Support

[MissScripture]

[quote name='FutureCarmeliteClaire' timestamp='1330829782' post='2395958']
Whoa. I was totally referring to people in real life. Especially relatives that are not Catholic or don't practice a faith. I would never say anything about the people on Phatmass like that... ever. I am not one of these teens who thinks they know all there is to know, I am just discerning, and you know, I am pretty sure of what I am called to do, but God's will is what I am seeking for, and I could feel quite differently in a few years... or in a few months for that matter.

No, at least for the people in my life, they know perfectly well what I am aiming for and what nuns and priests do, but it seems useless to explain over and over again that the media is corrupted, because these people don't care. They've been blinded by darkness and hypocrisy. I was just saying that they obviously do not want me to do what makes me happy. Sigh.
[/quote]
When my sister entered, and, actually, even now, a year and a half later, our grandparents are having a REALLY hard time with accepting it. They have friends who are sisters, but in a much more "progressive" order, so they can't understand why she doesn't have all the same "freedoms" of these other sisters. I know it bothered her a bit when she was entering, but now I think they keep their mouths shut around her and instead complain to me, which frustrates me to no end. I get so tired of hearing about how they think that she should be allowed to e-mail and call them and come home to visit if they are sick (she can if siblings or parents are very sick. Not grandparents. She would be allowed to come for their funeral, however). In a fit of frustration, that I am not very proud of, I basically told them to shut up about it. I don't understand how they can still be so negative about it when it is clear how happy she is there and how much she loves it! But I think it's just hard for people to understand choices that are so different from what they would chose, even with choices in day-to-day life. For example, I got a lot of flack when I decided not to take the licensure exam for physical therapy after getting my doctorate, because I decided it was not what I wanted to do with my life, after completing 3 years of graduate school to earn that doctorate. Even my parents, who knew how much I've always wanted to be a stay-at-home mom and how miserable I was during my schooling, couldn't believe that I would chose to do that. It's not that they don't want you to be happy. They probably just have a hard time understanding how you (or anyone) could really be happy with that decision. I know it is frustrating, but try to remember that it's not that they want you miserable, they really do care. (I need to remember that, too. )

[quote name='filius_angelorum' timestamp='1330859379' post='2396070']
I have taught over two hundred adolescents, and I can tell you that if any of them told me they wanted to enter religious life, I would be simply grateful. If it is a mere childish obsession, I would thank God it wasn't some hoodlum boy or drugs or video games, and if it is not, I'd be afraid lest I go down in history as the evil teacher who tried to stop a saint from pursuing his/her vocation. One loses nothing by pursuing religious life, even at a young age, and if one is called, one gains everything.

For converts, you never know how much personal sacrifice and compromise it has taken for someone to get into the Church in the first place. They may, in fact, understand a lot more about the human face of the Church than, say, a cradle-Catholic from New York. There are no privileged seats in the Mystical Body of Christ.

In other words, if a young person or convert wants to pursue religious life, let their Church authorities or Superiors judge them, as it is their duty. If they are rejected, support them. If they are accepted, rejoice with them. "Weep with those who weep. Rejoice with those who rejoice," as St. Paul says to the Romans.
[/quote]
This is a good point. Plus, it's not like it's an independent decision. It's not just the decision of the person, but of the superiors. And it doesn't happen overnight. A person doesn't enter and take vows immediately. There is a longer period before my sister will take final vows than most people date before getting married.

[PhuturePriest]

[quote name='FutureCarmeliteClaire' timestamp='1330894889' post='2396191']
Okay, that is just the reaction that (at least in my experience) has discouraged me. No one should be "disgusted". It's a wonderful, wonderful thing to discern. Maybe the problem isn't that we see things too black and white, but that people in general tend to see things too gray.

I have made it clear time and time again that I AM keeping my heart open to God's will. I would NEVER close the door. I have been discerning for a very long time, have made many mistakes and have learned from them. When a young child (I was seven when I first felt called) says that she wants to be a sister, the worst thing you can do is discourage them or be disgusted. If a 7 year old told you that she wanted to be a veterinarian, would you discourage her? Probably not. It is a poverty that adults would discourage a young child from a religious vocation. I must share the reason I feel this way:

My story began as a 7 year old with a desire to become a Carmelite nun. Yeah, even as a little girl I wanted this. My friends were less than happy with this, and since they were also very young, they could not keep opinions to themselves that might hurt others. I left this desire and finally came back to it a few years ago when I had realized what I had been missing out on, and I felt horrible guilt. I did not inflict this guilt upon myself, it was just there and it grew. No one forced it. Anywho, I finally came back a few years ago. I know I was really young, but this is a part of me, and it really hurts to see people discouraging our very young ones. I can put up with people discouraging me now, but this time it's more than just friends. It's adults too, and that hurts.
[/quote]

Precisely. I first felt the call when I was ten, but it went away, and then I felt it again when I was eleven, but it went away soon after. Then, when I was as close to the scum of the earth as I possibly could be, I felt it yet again. Since then, it has been my main focus. I have never closed the door to marriage, but I do know what I am inclined to, and everything I'm inclined to couldn't be done in a marriage. Doing charity work at a soup kitchen is simply not enough for me. I must go 110%, and the way to do this is to join Religious life. I don't want to just work part time, but full time. I want to preach to our society that is in need of so much spiritual nourishment, and I believe I can do that with the Franciscan Brothers Minor.

[beatitude]

[quote name='FuturePriest387' timestamp='1330897862' post='2396214']
Doing charity work at a soup kitchen is simply not enough for me. I must go 110%, and the way to do this is to join Religious life.
[/quote]

Many saints have said that it is not the size of our actions that matter, but the love with which we do them.

Because of that, a married couple who do charity work at a soup kitchen could be contributing far more to the kingdom of heaven in God's eyes than the abbot of their local monastery.

[PhuturePriest]

[quote name='beatitude' timestamp='1330898551' post='2396220']
Many saints have said that it is not the size of our actions that matter, but the love with which we do them.

Because of that, a married couple who do charity work at a soup kitchen could be contributing far more to the kingdom of heaven in God's eyes than the abbot of their local monastery.
[/quote]

I'm not saying that working at a soup kitchen a few hours every week is bad, I'm saying I am inclined to do much more. I feel called to do more, to give myself completely to God without the distractions of marriage, to not divide my heart between my wife and family and God as Saint Paul says happens, and to enter Religious life. I can't explain it any other way, as it a strange feeling to explain. I just feel called to do so much more and to join the Religious life in order to do it.

[FutureCarmeliteClaire]

[quote name='beatitude' timestamp='1330896524' post='2396204']
Claire, Antigonos didn't write that she was disgusted. She said that she is 'sometimes a bit disturbed', and that comment wasn't directed at you. Look at it again: "I confess that, as a former adolescent myself, and the mother of three former adolescents, I am sometimes a bit disturbed when a [i]very[/i] young person makes a decision so radical as to want to enter religious life." I think perhaps you are being a little oversensitive and taking things personally when they are not personal.

[/quote]
Oops, my bad! I'm sorry, I am just really defensive about stuff like this because of my own personal experiences.

[Antigonos]

I'm certainly not disgusted by anyone, of any age, announcing that he or she wanted to devote their life to a religious goal. Nor would I try and discourage them from discernment. I'm just saying that, the younger one is, the more I think the attraction to religious life is based less on a full understanding of one's own personality and realistic expectation, and more on externals and emotion, and that is [b][i]perfectly normal and understandable[/i][/b]. As one matures, lifetime decisions are based more on knowledge [or should be]. If they aren't, that is a potential tragedy.

We have multiple threads here on the habit, for example. Some are quite lighthearted; I rather think that no one in the forum would make a decision on what order to enter based on the style of the habit [or hope not :-))]. But a person who is still basically a child might well romanticize on "how I'll look in [this or that] habit", etc. That's quite normal at that stage of a person's development, but by the time serious discernment begins, we hope that that isn't the person's primary incentive to the religious life.

It would be unrealistic to expect a very young person to have a good grasp of the different spiritualities of the different orders. While a ten year old girl might think she has a potential vocation, I doubt she really could decide to be either a Poor Clare or a Benedictine with any degree of real awareness of how each order's approach to spirituality is different. Her feelings are much more likely to have been affected by a book, or a film, or meeting with, or being taught by, a sister of a particular order. That isn't to say there isn't a genuine desire for the religious life! It just means that one has to maintain a sense of proportion [as one has to do generally in life anyway]

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='Antigonos' timestamp='1330926869' post='2396431']
I'm certainly not disgusted by anyone, of any age, announcing that he or she wanted to devote their life to a religious goal. Nor would I try and discourage them from discernment. I'm just saying that, the younger one is, the more I think the attraction to religious life is based less on a full understanding of one's own personality and realistic expectation, and more on externals and emotion, and that is [b][i]perfectly normal and understandable[/i][/b]. As one matures, lifetime decisions are based more on knowledge [or should be]. If they aren't, that is a potential tragedy.

We have multiple threads here on the habit, for example. Some are quite lighthearted; I rather think that no one in the forum would make a decision on what order to enter based on the style of the habit [or hope not :-))]. But a person who is still basically a child might well romanticize on "how I'll look in [this or that] habit", etc. That's quite normal at that stage of a person's development, but by the time serious discernment begins, we hope that that isn't the person's primary incentive to the religious life.

It would be unrealistic to expect a very young person to have a good grasp of the different spiritualities of the different orders. While a ten year old girl might think she has a potential vocation, I doubt she really could decide to be either a Poor Clare or a Benedictine with any degree of real awareness of how each order's approach to spirituality is different. Her feelings are much more likely to have been affected by a book, or a film, or meeting with, or being taught by, a sister of a particular order. That isn't to say there isn't a genuine desire for the religious life! It just means that one has to maintain a sense of proportion [as one has to do generally in life anyway]
[/quote]
Wish I could prop you. (And I don't see any reason why you should have the phishy, but hey, I'm not the boss.)

[Antigonos]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1330929511' post='2396440']
Wish I could prop you. (And I don't see any reason why you should have the phishy, but hey, I'm not the boss.)
[/quote]

I think the moderator regards any non-Catholic as a bit odd I don't mind as long as no one tells me I smell...

[i<3LSOP]

I've felt the call actually since I was eight. It all started when we were visiting Rome and a nun who I didn't/don't know said[color=#282828] "This girl...she, she has something special in her. She will do the work of the Lord someday." [/color]

I'm open because I'm young, and because I know that it is only right to be open because if you aren't... you could very easily be going against what God really want for you. I have been told many times that I would make a great mother... and feel pure joy when I have a child in my arms... especially when they kiss me or raise their arms up to me because they want to be held. Yes I'd love to get married and have children... but I feel right now that God is getting "in my boat" and steering it towards Religious Life. I am deeply in love with Jesus and can confidently say that I love Him and am closer to Him then my family and friends.

Prayers for all of my fellow discerners!

Edited March 5, 2012 by i<3LSOP

[Tally Marx]

I've heard stories, here and elsewhere, of daughters whose parents completely "flipped out" when she told them she was discerning. Disowned her, told her she was better off dead, etc. Because of this, I feel very bad thinking about how people have made discernment hard for me. Nothing I've gone through has been quite as bad as that.

Even so, I still wish my parents were more enthusiastic. Yes, it'll be hard to see me only X amount of time a year. I get that. It'll be hard for me, too. But still. My mother talks about my brother having a vocation to the priesthood and is ecstatic at the very idea. When it comes to me, it's more of a, "If God wills it then let it be so...but please let this cup pass!". They've never said flat out they don't want me to join, but have made it clear they rather I not. Especially my mom. I don't understand this difference.

It's been very bad lately (for me), because they've been very vocal about how they think I'm going to ruin my life if I enter now. How I was a fool to let this amesome guy go, and how they think I should date. They say I don't know anything about discernment, and neither does my SD (who is a priest, btw), and recently said that they should be my SD! They threatened to make my SD give them a transcript of what we've discussed together (I'm almost not a minor, but not quite there yet). Because I agree with my SD on how I should go about discerning and I refuse to date, they think I don't care about what they think or their advice, and that I'm ungrateful. It's not that, of course, but they've nevertheless tried to make me feel very guilty. And it's worked. I never cry, but when I was up til 1:30am last with my mom yelling at me...

Ah, please just pray for me. I really need some prayers right now.

[i<3LSOP]

[quote name='Tally Marx' timestamp='1330988352' post='2396655']
I've heard stories, here and elsewhere, of daughters whose parents completely "flipped out" when she told them she was discerning. Disowned her, told her she was better off dead, etc. Because of this, I feel very bad thinking about how people have made discernment hard for me. Nothing I've gone through has been quite as bad as that.

Even so, I still wish my parents were more enthusiastic. Yes, it'll be hard to see me only X amount of time a year. I get that. It'll be hard for me, too. But still. My mother talks about my brother having a vocation to the priesthood and is ecstatic at the very idea. When it comes to me, it's more of a, "If God wills it then let it be so...but please let this cup pass!". They've never said flat out they don't want me to join, but have made it clear they rather I not. Especially my mom. I don't understand this difference.

It's been very bad lately (for me), because they've been very vocal about how they think I'm going to ruin my life if I enter now. How I was a fool to let this amesome guy go, and how they think I should date. They say I don't know anything about discernment, and neither does my SD (who is a priest, btw), and recently said that they should be my SD! They threatened to make my SD give them a transcript of what we've discussed together (I'm almost not a minor, but not quite there yet). Because I agree with my SD on how I should go about discerning and I refuse to date, they think I don't care about what they think or their advice, and that I'm ungrateful. It's not that, of course, but they've nevertheless tried to make me feel very guilty. And it's worked. I never cry, but when I was up til 1:30am last with my mom yelling at me...

Ah, please just pray for me. I really need some prayers right now.
[/quote]

Prayers for you.

[MarysLittleFlower]

Regarding age, I agree that sometimes it helps to spend time discerning, but then I also think of the Saints who knew they were called to religious life at an early age.. like St Therese. [b]Of course we should be humble and not compare ourselves to the Saints or think we are like them[/b].. but it just shows that it can happen so if I meet anyone young who is considering religious life, that's not something I would discourage, but just encourage them to stay open to God.

[Carmelshrimp]

[quote name='Tally Marx' timestamp='1330988352' post='2396655']
I've heard stories, here and elsewhere, of daughters whose parents completely "flipped out" when she told them she was discerning. Disowned her, told her she was better off dead, etc. Because of this, I feel very bad thinking about how people have made discernment hard for me. Nothing I've gone through has been quite as bad as that.

Even so, I still wish my parents were more enthusiastic. Yes, it'll be hard to see me only X amount of time a year. I get that. It'll be hard for me, too. But still. My mother talks about my brother having a vocation to the priesthood and is ecstatic at the very idea. When it comes to me, it's more of a, "If God wills it then let it be so...but please let this cup pass!". They've never said flat out they don't want me to join, but have made it clear they rather I not. Especially my mom. I don't understand this difference.

It's been very bad lately (for me), because they've been very vocal about how they think I'm going to ruin my life if I enter now. How I was a fool to let this amesome guy go, and how they think I should date. They say I don't know anything about discernment, and neither does my SD (who is a priest, btw), and recently said that they should be my SD! They threatened to make my SD give them a transcript of what we've discussed together (I'm almost not a minor, but not quite there yet). Because I agree with my SD on how I should go about discerning and I refuse to date, they think I don't care about what they think or their advice, and that I'm ungrateful. It's not that, of course, but they've nevertheless tried to make me feel very guilty. And it's worked. I never cry, but when I was up til 1:30am last with my mom yelling at me...

Ah, please just pray for me. I really need some prayers right now.
[/quote]
I'm really sorry things are so tough for you just now. Maybe your parents are feeling a bit panicky at "losing" you. I don't know which order you're discerning with, but if you're likely to be enclosed or very far away they may not know how to handle it. It seems to be true for lots of people that parents find it harder to come to terms with a daughter entering religious life that a son becoming a priest and there are too many mixed up reasons for that to unscramble this side of next Christmas! (They may not have been any happier if he'd decided to become a monk though).

All you can do is pray, wait and be faithful to God - who will always be faithful to you, I must admit I don't understand the idea of demanding to be told about your discussions with your SD. I would always consider that to be entirely confidential and I know my SD would say that it came under the seal of confession and would never repeat our conversations to anybody. I hope you don't have to deal with that because it must make it very hard for you to speak openly if you're worried that it might not be confidential. Discerning a vocation is a momentous step and it's bound to be an emotionally charged time for you and your family, but if you do have the call to enter and you keep your heart in God's heart things will sort themselves out in time. And time is a very useful thing. Sometimes that's all we can rely on to bring families to acceptance and peace with a child's decision to enter religious life, but if they love you (and I'm sure they do) when they see you fulfilled and happy in the life God has called you to they'll find it easier to accept. Prayers for you.

[marigold]

Yeah, and I would just double-check with the spiritual director that everything you discuss with him [i]is[/i] confidential. I don't see why it wouldn't be.

It may be that, like my parents, their bark is worse than their bite. My mother got my priest's number and was going to tell him what was what. She also set up an appointment with her friend who is a psychiatric counsellor. Neither of those ever came to anything.

I will be praying

[mantellata]

[quote name='Tally Marx' timestamp='1330988352' post='2396655']
I've heard stories, here and elsewhere, of daughters whose parents completely "flipped out" when she told them she was discerning. Disowned her, told her she was better off dead, etc. Because of this, I feel very bad thinking about how people have made discernment hard for me. Nothing I've gone through has been quite as bad as that.

Even so, I still wish my parents were more enthusiastic. Yes, it'll be hard to see me only X amount of time a year. I get that. It'll be hard for me, too. But still. My mother talks about my brother having a vocation to the priesthood and is ecstatic at the very idea. When it comes to me, it's more of a, "If God wills it then let it be so...but please let this cup pass!". They've never said flat out they don't want me to join, but have made it clear they rather I not. Especially my mom. I don't understand this difference.

It's been very bad lately (for me), because they've been very vocal about how they think I'm going to ruin my life if I enter now. How I was a fool to let this amesome guy go, and how they think I should date. They say I don't know anything about discernment, and neither does my SD (who is a priest, btw), and recently said that they should be my SD! They threatened to make my SD give them a transcript of what we've discussed together (I'm almost not a minor, but not quite there yet). Because I agree with my SD on how I should go about discerning and I refuse to date, they think I don't care about what they think or their advice, and that I'm ungrateful. It's not that, of course, but they've nevertheless tried to make me feel very guilty. And it's worked. I never cry, but when I was up til 1:30am last with my mom yelling at me...

Ah, please just pray for me. I really need some prayers right now.
[/quote]

I totally understand. I've been a religious and now I'm heading towards another community. 10 years ago when I first entered my mother reacted in a similar fashion. Do not feel guilty dear -- it is a normal reaction - especially for one who wants to please her parents and is only following what your mother likely taught you in the first place -- to pray and love God and do His will.

The reaction likely comes from a place that is a wee bit selfish. You are the one who could give your mother grandchildren. A daughter's own child has more connection and emotional pull for most mothers than a daughter in law. For a mother (says my mother who after 10 years is now 110% behind my vocation - she knows it is the only thing that will bring me happiness) a daughter's child is almost like having your own. Your call is a big and drastic change to her original future plans -- plans that centered around showering you with more love..... and your future little ones.

My suggestion? Pray for your mom. Don't try so hard to make her accept your decision. Do not try to defend your own. It will only cause grief and the only thing that helps this situation is time -- lots of it. Years of it. Instead, focus your attention on [b][i]loving[/i][/b] your mom with all your strength. She's likely thinking about loosing you every time she sees you. If she offers you a barbed comment about your future choice, or that you should be dating, give her a hug and say "thanks for the love" sincerely and without sarcasm. Then drop it. You want your last months/moments [i]with[/i] your mom to be memories she can hold onto when she wants to call and hear your voice but can't, when she wants to visit but can't etc......

Most of all --[b]do not feel guilty.[/b] You are not causing your mother pain by your decision - her own attachments are. (Don't tell her this.... her attachments are good attachments..... she should be attached! She's your mom!) Give your pain to Our Lady and ask her to love your mom with all She's got! Rest in the arms of your crucified beloved. He understands.