People Who Don't Support

[filius_angelorum]

[quote name='Antigonos' timestamp='1330839389' post='2396041']
I confess that, as a former adolescent myself, and the mother of three former adolescents, I am sometimes a bit disturbed when a [i]very[/i] young person makes a decision so radical as to want to enter religious life. Even at age 18, one often doesn't have the necessary wisdom or maturity for such a far-reaching decision. Life is so black and white [no pun intended], and everything is so intense, at this age. It takes quite a while to learn that there are only innumerable shades of gray. I think this is especially true for those who have recently converted to Catholicism.

By all means, investigate the option of religious life but don't close the door so vehemently on other paths until one gains a wider experience of life in general. One can truly serve God and mankind in so very many ways; formal religious life is only one of them.
[/quote]

I have taught over two hundred adolescents, and I can tell you that if any of them told me they wanted to enter religious life, I would be simply grateful. If it is a mere childish obsession, I would thank God it wasn't some hoodlum boy or drugs or video games, and if it is not, I'd be afraid lest I go down in history as the evil teacher who tried to stop a saint from pursuing his/her vocation. One loses nothing by pursuing religious life, even at a young age, and if one is called, one gains everything.

For converts, you never know how much personal sacrifice and compromise it has taken for someone to get into the Church in the first place. They may, in fact, understand a lot more about the human face of the Church than, say, a cradle-Catholic from New York. There are no privileged seats in the Mystical Body of Christ.

In other words, if a young person or convert wants to pursue religious life, let their Church authorities or Superiors judge them, as it is their duty. If they are rejected, support them. If they are accepted, rejoice with them. "Weep with those who weep. Rejoice with those who rejoice," as St. Paul says to the Romans.

[BarbTherese]

[quote]It takes quite a while to learn that there are only innumerable shades of gray.[/quote]

I think those that have and do persevere in religious life have well learnt in the life itself (if not beforehand) that there are indeed innumerable shades of grey. That things are no always at all as they may appear. If I have understood your comment rightly, that is.

[HopefulBride]

FCC if makes you feel better, I was listening to EWTN on Friday and the little segment called "the Call" where priest tell of their Vocation Story, there was a priest who talked about how his Father was Very angry at him for becoming a priest that he basically estranged himself from him and didn't go to his ordination or his first mass. This went on for years and then years after being a priest he was made a bishop (I think bishop - or monsignor, can't fully recall) his dad went to confession then went to that mass. From that point on things changed and they were close again. His dad died 5 moths later.

I guess what I'm trying to say is as much as you want someone to understand what you are doing and why it may not be part of the Lord's will for them to reach that now. Perhaps they need to go through a conversion first for which they may not be ready. Don't lose faith and trust in His will not just for you but for your relatives and friends and just trust your vocation to him. I can tell you countless stories of sisters (recounted to me by them!!) whose parents were not at all supportive, from whom they were estranged but they focused on the cross and the Lord's will and in the end, it worked out.

Prayers for you!

[BarbTherese]

Not too sure how old you might be, FCC - but for this oldie (I am 66yrs old) as I go through life I meet those who are for me and those who for some reason are against me. It's all a learning process guided by God, our Faith tells us, and I slowly learn to thank God for those who are supportive and let the comments of those who do not to not 'get at me' so much so that it starts to really hurt and upset. We are all entitled to our opinion, which doesn't of course mean that every opinion is therefore a correct assessment and even my own opinions. In fact, I am learning to thank God for the difficult too, because they are the instruments of one learning about acceptance and patience even humility, learning to love those one finds difficult to like, and those who may present difficulties to me. I am learning about the difference between "like" and "love" and one can indeed love those we cannot like. It sort of begs the question : "What exactly is it to Love and how does it differ totally from "like"? We cannot like everyone that is reality, but we are called to love everyone, even our enemies. Virtue, it is said, is strengthened in adversity. It is easy to be virtuous when all is going well, not so easy to do so if things get a bit rough going. Not only this, but I now realize that I might be just as difficult to some as I might find others and this ratheroften crosses my mind with a smile if dealing with someone difficult.

I have been delighted the the number of young people on Phatmass here who are considering religious life - and I thank God that there are so many wonderful opportunties available nowadays to learn all about religious life and growing spiritually in the discerning journey. Phatmass is a great resource - and for me, for many reasons.

You will be in my prayers daily for those who are on the discernment journey re religious life and the priesthood in a special way.

[PhuturePriest]

I know what you mean. The Religious life and Priesthood are my greatest joy, and when people tell me I'm a complete moron that obviously needs a date, my heart rate goes up. My uncle has been telling my parents to buy me a hooker since I was twelve or thirteen, and he recently stressed the dire need for it that I have. Quite honestly, after living the sinful life, I don't want to ever experience sexual pleasure again. I would much rather be a Priest or Franciscan Friar, where I may serve the Lord with an undivided heart, as Saint Paul says. I want so much to serve the Lord as a Friar or Diocesan Priest, and I don't care who says I'm an idiot that hasn't experienced the world yet. The problem is I was an idiot that experienced the world, and I came to my senses a year ago. I've had it with what the world has to offer. Now I want what the Lord has to offer.

[marigold]

[quote name='FuturePriest387' timestamp='1330874937' post='2396103']
I know what you mean. The Religious life and Priesthood are my greatest joy, and when people tell me I'm a complete moron that obviously needs a date, my heart rate goes up. My uncle has been telling my parents to buy me a hooker since I was twelve or thirteen, and he recently stressed the dire need for it that I have. Quite honestly, after living the sinful life, I don't want to ever experience sexual pleasure again. I would much rather be a Priest or Franciscan Friar, where I may serve the Lord with an undivided heart, as Saint Paul says. I want so much to serve the Lord as a Friar or Diocesan Priest, and I don't care who says I'm an idiot that hasn't experienced the world yet. The problem is I was an idiot that experienced the world, and I came to my senses a year ago. I've had it with what the world has to offer. Now I want what the Lord has to offer.
[/quote]

Yes, so you keep saying.

“How do I know if the fire I have inside is from God?”
“It is whether you want other people to notice the fire.”

[PhuturePriest]

[quote name='marigold' timestamp='1330876689' post='2396110']
Yes, so you keep saying.

“How do I know if the fire I have inside is from God?”
“It is whether you want other people to notice the fire.”
[/quote]

I'm not quite sure what "Yes, so you keep saying." is supposed to imply. Would you mind adding more to explain your point?

[marigold]

[quote name='FuturePriest387' timestamp='1330876849' post='2396111']
I'm not quite sure what "Yes, so you keep saying." is supposed to imply. Would you mind adding more to explain your point?
[/quote]

You don't need to keep reminding everyone how little you care about the things of this world and how strong your desire is to serve the Lord. These things are tested over time. A strong commitment shines through everything a person says and does - and very rarely when they are telling everyone else about themselves. I commend your zeal, but a fire is better kept inside a stove than out on a hilltop.

I'm saying all this because I like you and think you have a lot of potential.

[PhuturePriest]

[quote name='marigold' timestamp='1330877957' post='2396114']
You don't need to keep reminding everyone how little you care about the things of this world and how strong your desire is to serve the Lord. These things are tested over time. A strong commitment shines through everything a person says and does - and very rarely when they are telling everyone else about themselves. I commend your zeal, but a fire is better kept inside a stove than out on a hilltop.

I'm saying all this because I like you and think you have a lot of potential.
[/quote]

You know those people that get so on fire for the Faith that they just talk constantly about it like Tim Staples? I'm one of them, and I apologize if you get annoyed by it. I just never speak all that much in real life because I stutter, so when I get on the internet I love to socialize myself and be the person carrying the conversation for once.

[marigold]

[quote name='FuturePriest387' timestamp='1330878767' post='2396119']
You know those people that get so on fire for the Faith that they just talk constantly about it like Tim Staples? I'm one of them, and I apologize if you get annoyed by it. I just never speak all that much in real life because I stutter, so when I get on the internet I love to socialize myself and be the person carrying the conversation for once.
[/quote]

Ok, I had to look up Tim Staples, but I get the point. I apologise, please forgive me.

[PhuturePriest]

[quote name='marigold' timestamp='1330879109' post='2396122']
Ok, I had to look up Tim Staples, but I get the point. I apologise, please forgive me.
[/quote]

There's no need to apologize, you are right: I speak too much about my conversion story. I just really enjoy sharing it - and actually being able to share it! Don't worry anything about it, though. I'll try not to speak about it unless I am asked to.

[MargaretTeresa]

Welcome to my life. Mi madre es muy locoa y que actua como.

[Antigonos]

[quote name='FuturePriest387' timestamp='1330874937' post='2396103'] Quite honestly, after living the sinful life, I don't want to ever experience sexual pleasure again.
[/quote]

We don't usually discuss sexuality here. But in the '70s I was in a therapy group with a psychiatrist who had made something of a specialty of treating sexually conflicted priests and nuns. At the time [IIRC, it was just after V2], the Episcopalian Church in the US was very advanced in getting professional help for priests who needed it. By no means all the Episcopalian clergy are celibate, but there are those who do profess a vow of celibacy, and not infrequently the reason they choose to do so is because of unresolved sexual conflicts. Back then, the Church did not accept homosexuality at all, and those who thought that a vow of celibacy would free them from either latent or overt homosexuality and found out that it didn't, suffered greatly from guilt. One of the priests in the group was deeply concerned about the possibility that he was homosexual because an early attempt at a heterosexual encounter [before he entered religious life] had failed. And there were other scenarios.

My tradition does not exalt either virginity or celibacy. Traditionally it is expected that all adult Jews will marry. This doesn't mean that there aren't Jews with sexual problems, of course. But the feeling is that God gave both man and women sexual urges which are meant to be enjoyed within the correct parameters [marriage, and in marriage at certain times]. The opposite of virginity/celibacy does not mean promiscuity.

Renouncing a sexual life [i]should [/i]matter to someone contemplating a celibate life or a life vowed to virginity. It should be a sacrifice, joyfully entered into, not a means of fleeing from some problem with sexuality. Celibacy shouldn't be easy; if it is, then there is some issue that needs to be worked through. Sublimation? Denial? Discovering the reason for the aversion?

Do you have a spiritual director? Have you discussed with him your views, expressed here, about sacrifice and sexuality? In my very humble opinion, they seem rather extreme. I'm not saying that you may not have a real vocation -- you may indeed -- but my antennae are wriggling at some of the things you've written. Possibly no other Phatmassers share my opinion--and I am not a Catholic, so you might find my viewpoint irrelevant. But happily married Jews also live deeply spiritual lives, in [i]this[/i] world, and find the concept of withdrawing from it nearly incomprehensible. But there are many paths to God.

When I made my first comment I was particularly remembering my own early adolescence, at camp and at sleep-overs with friends, when we discussed how yucky boys were and how disgusting the whole idea of sex was. I think I was about 13, maybe a bit younger. Needless to say, that changed, as the hormones stopped raging so wildly. It's normal, just as locker room talk by teenage boys can be very off-putting to a boy less advanced in puberty [who isn't aware that there is a lot of bragging and begins to think there's something very odd about his disinterest in girls] That's one of the reasons I applaud the changes that have occurred in discernment in the past few decades, as Barbara Therese has mentioned above, that it is longer, more intense, and undertaken at an older age [although still quite young]

[FutureCarmeliteClaire]

[quote name='Antigonos' timestamp='1330839389' post='2396041']
I confess that, as a former adolescent myself, and the mother of three former adolescents, I am sometimes a bit disturbed when a [i]very[/i] young person makes a decision so radical as to want to enter religious life. Even at age 18, one often doesn't have the necessary wisdom or maturity for such a far-reaching decision. Life is so black and white [no pun intended], and everything is so intense, at this age. It takes quite a while to learn that there are only innumerable shades of gray. I think this is especially true for those who have recently converted to Catholicism.

By all means, investigate the option of religious life but don't close the door so vehemently on other paths until one gains a wider experience of life in general. One can truly serve God and mankind in so very many ways; formal religious life is only one of them.
[/quote]
Okay, that is just the reaction that (at least in my experience) has discouraged me. No one should be "disgusted". It's a wonderful, wonderful thing to discern. Maybe the problem isn't that we see things too black and white, but that people in general tend to see things too gray.

I have made it clear time and time again that I AM keeping my heart open to God's will. I would NEVER close the door. I have been discerning for a very long time, have made many mistakes and have learned from them. When a young child (I was seven when I first felt called) says that she wants to be a sister, the worst thing you can do is discourage them or be disgusted. If a 7 year old told you that she wanted to be a veterinarian, would you discourage her? Probably not. It is a poverty that adults would discourage a young child from a religious vocation. I must share the reason I feel this way:

My story began as a 7 year old with a desire to become a Carmelite nun. Yeah, even as a little girl I wanted this. My friends were less than happy with this, and since they were also very young, they could not keep opinions to themselves that might hurt others. I left this desire and finally came back to it a few years ago when I had realized what I had been missing out on, and I felt horrible guilt. I did not inflict this guilt upon myself, it was just there and it grew. No one forced it. Anywho, I finally came back a few years ago. I know I was really young, but this is a part of me, and it really hurts to see people discouraging our very young ones. I can put up with people discouraging me now, but this time it's more than just friends. It's adults too, and that hurts.

[beatitude]

Claire, Antigonos didn't write that she was disgusted. She said that she is 'sometimes a bit disturbed', and that comment wasn't directed at you. Look at it again: "I confess that, as a former adolescent myself, and the mother of three former adolescents, I am sometimes a bit disturbed when a [i]very[/i] young person makes a decision so radical as to want to enter religious life." I think perhaps you are being a little oversensitive and taking things personally when they are not personal.

[quote]Renouncing a sexual life [i]should [/i]matter to someone contemplating a celibate life or a life vowed to virginity. It should be a sacrifice, joyfully entered into, not a means of fleeing from some problem with sexuality. Celibacy shouldn't be easy; if it is, then there is some issue that needs to be worked through. Sublimation? Denial? Discovering the reason for the aversion?[/quote]

As a 25-year-old woman in formation with a secular institute I agree with this completely. I take a lot of joy and strength from my vocation. I love my life and wouldn't want it to be any different. But it has its challenges, which sometimes take the shape of a good friend who is pretty darned attractive and probably excellent marriage material. If I hadn't chosen the path I have, I would be in a relationship with with him now. It's not a question of me valiantly fending off evil desires of the flesh with a pitchfork in order to pursue my goal - marriage with him and consecrated single life are both beautiful ways of serving God. I could not have made a bad choice in this situation, because both options are fundamentally good and blessed things. I chose the way of life in which I feel most at home, deep down. But it's still painful sometimes, and why wouldn't it be? I am an imperfect human on an imperfect earth. Some heartache is to be expected, no matter what we do in life.