Maryland Priest Denies Communion To Lesbian At Funeral

[cappie]

This is the last thing I will say in the matter.

There is not, and never has been, the slightest doubt but that a Catholic woman living a lesbian lifestyle should not approach for holy Communion, per c. 916. One so approaching risks receiving the Eucharist to her own condemnation. 1 Corinthians XI: 27. But, once any Catholic approaches for the public reception of holy Communion, a different norm controls the situation, namely, Canon 915. The only question in this case is, and has always been, whether the centuries-old criteria for withholding holy Communion from a member of the faithful were satisfied at the time this woman approached this minister. Unless all of those criteria were satisfied at that time, then, no matter what moral offense the woman might have committed by approaching for the Sacrament in her state (for which action she would be accountable before God), the minister of holy Communion acted illicitly. Period. End of paragraph.

[Cherie]

What would y'all do if you were a priest and had a woman come up to you before Mass, introduce her lesbian "lover", and openly state she is living in sin? I think Fr. Marcel acted in accord with his conscience and I know it was not an easy thing to do. I think lots of us would have done the same in defense of Church teaching and the Blessed Sacrament.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='CherieMadame' timestamp='1330867373' post='2396091']
What would y'all do if you were a priest and had a woman come up to you before Mass, introduce her lesbian "lover", and openly state she is living in sin? I think Fr. Marcel acted in accord with his conscience and I know it was not an easy thing to do. I think lots of us would have done the same in defense of Church teaching and the Blessed Sacrament.
[/quote]
And as Father Cappie who posted directly above you pointed out you would be wrong.

[Slappo]

[quote name='Katiebobatie94' timestamp='1330825360' post='2395904']
yes chances are the family didn't take too kindly to the idea of her sexual orientation but i can almost guarantee you that over time whether they agree with it or not, they came to terms with it because ultimately if they love her they would just want to see her happy. and i agree, mother's is not the place to bring this up.
[/quote]

Katie, my mother is a practicing lesbian and has been for about 7 years now. I haven't "come to terms with it". I accept that it is the current state of affairs, but I haven't become ok with the situation. As every stage in my life changes, the pains of her lifestyle choices re-open. Now I have a family and children - how do I teach my children to act towards their grandmother? How do I teach them to act towards her partner? What boundaries need to be set up between my family and her life style and how do I set those appropriately and charitably?

I don't want my mother to just be happy, I want her to be joyful, and I know she cannot be filled with the true joy of the Lord living the lifestyle she has chosen. So although I accept that the current state of affairs are what they are, I have not "come to terms" with the choices she's made. My wife and I pray for her conversion in our rosaries, and I've told my mother exactly how we feel, and that we are going to raise our children to love her, but also to understand that her relationship is not appropriate.

Edit: Just posting to give some insight as to the way at least some families react and view their homosexual family members.

Edited March 4, 2012 by Slappo

[Norseman82]

I recall a few years ago that the "Rainbow Sash" movement publicly protested (I believe it was on Pentecost Sunday) the Church's stance on homosexual relations and decided to wear the sign of disobedience as they went up to communion. The front page of the local section of the next day's Chicago Tribune showed a photo of the pastor of Holy Name Cathedral giving a blessing instead of the Eucharist. And one of the priests who celebrates Traditional Latin Mass at a local parish called the offices of our pro-abortion congressman telling them that if he were to present himself to receive the Eucharist he would refuse to give It to him. So this appears to be a diocese-by-diocese decison as to how to handle certain situations.

Edited March 4, 2012 by Norseman82

[Cherie]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1330878956' post='2396120']
And as Father Cappie who posted directly above you pointed out you would be wrong.
[/quote]

I wasn't saying it in regard to Father's post, I was saying it in regard to what each person would do, separate from anyone's post or previously stated opinion on the subject. Honestly Cmom, what would YOU do in that situation? I think understanding what WE would have done (and that probably most of us would have done similarly) will help give Father Marcel the benefit of the doubt, which he certainly deserves. He, as a holy priest of God who was obviously trying to stand up for the Church and Her teachings, does not deserve to be judged harshly. He may have gone about it the wrong way, but he was obviously doing what he thought was right (which was obviously not an easy thing to do), and I think that deserves praise, the benefit of the doubt, or at LEAST refraining from judging him.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='CherieMadame' timestamp='1330883409' post='2396145']
I wasn't saying it in regard to Father's post, I was saying it in regard to what each person would do. Honestly Cmom, what would YOU do in that situation? I think understanding what WE would have done (and that probably most of us would have done similarly) will help give Father Marcel the benefit of the doubt, which he certainly deserves. He, as a holy priest of God who was obviously trying to stand up for the Church and Her teachings, does not deserve to be judged harshly. He may have gone about it the wrong way, but he was obviously doing what he thought was right (which was obviously not an easy thing to do), and I think that deserves praise, the benefit of the doubt, or at LEAST refraining from judging him.
[/quote]
As far as I am concerned he is a hero. He thought what he is doing was exactly right, and if its a mistake well he is a human being put in a ridiculously stressful contrived and deliberate situation to embarrass the Church. All blame falls on the female involved.

I am not and never would be a EMOC.

[bernadette d]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1330883685' post='2396147']
As far as I am concerned he is a hero. He thought what he is doing was exactly right, and if its a mistake well he is a human being put in a ridiculously stressful contrived and deliberate situation to embarrass the Church. All blame falls on the female involved.

I am not and never would be a EMOC.
[/quote]

I agree, and we do not even know that, in the short time available to him,he had not tried other ways of dealing with a very sad and serious situation.
Like many of us, I am sure, I feel upset about the whole episode, especially for Fr Marcel, may God Bless and comfort him.
Just one thing.............what's an EMOC? I googled it but the answer can't be right!!!

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='bernadette d' timestamp='1330884850' post='2396149']
I agree, and we do not even know that, in the short time available to him,he had not tried other ways of dealing with a very sad and serious situation.
Like many of us, I am sure, I feel upset about the whole episode, especially for Fr Marcel, may God Bless and comfort him.
Just one thing.............what's an EMOC? I googled it but the answer can't be right!!!
[/quote]

Extra-ordinary Minister of Communion.

[bernadette d]

Oh, of course !

[Luigi]

In a similar vein:
[url="http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metro/gay-man-now-loses-job-at-st-louis-county-church/article_959c44aa-57e9-564a-824e-7f4c9cc9d2d5.html"]http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metro/gay-man-now-loses-job-at-st-louis-county-church/article_959c44aa-57e9-564a-824e-7f4c9cc9d2d5.html[/url]

A gay Catholic school teacher and music minister (at two different parishes) is fired from both jobs because he let it be known that he and his long-term 'husband' were going to another state to be married.

And he claims the Church is at fault for firing him. Although mostly it's his 'husband' who's doing the talking on the subject.

[cappie]

[size=3]Yes it will be a problem of varying degrees. Almost every aspect of the previous case underscores, in my opinion, the crucial need for more rigorous training of ministers in questions of sacramental discipline. Perhaps never have the members of the Church been in greater need of sacramental ministration; perhaps never have they brought with them less understanding of the sacraments; and, for sure, never have they possessed more power to broadcast their misunderstandings of the sacraments to others, this, to their detriment, of course, but also to the Church’s.[/size]

[Ed Normile]

[quote name='cappie' timestamp='1330745620' post='2395554']
From the blog cited above: A few years ago, Bp. Ricken made exactly this kind of determination about, in fact, two Catholic lesbians who had repeatedly proclaimed their aberrant lifestyle in the local media. He contacted them and told them they were not permitted to approach for holy Communion. He acted entirely appropriately, in accord with canon law (and sound sacramental theology), and his action won support from neutral observers. But, notice, his conduct was[b] a far cry from a quick decision regarding ALL elements of c. 915 (not just one or two of them) made a few minutes before Mass one day.[/b]

And the fallout from the two cases has been night-and-day different.
[/quote]

I do not understand this response? How was that case a " far cry from a quick decision" etc., the couple presented themselves as lesbians, had they even asked for the Sacrament of Absolution and Penance, maybe then it would have been different. The way the lady approached the priest before the mass and announced her "lover" seemed to say this is what I am, take it or leave it, and the priest decided to act appropriately in my view.

Cappie, you are a priest I see, would you present the Sacrament to a man who before the celebration announced he just murdered someone, or told you he was an abortionist? The fallout is so different at this time because the Church and religion in general is under attack by the media, guided no doubt by the deceiver. I feel this priest acted discreetly and properly and should be lauded.

ed

Edited March 5, 2012 by Ed Normile

[Ed Normile]

By the way the title is not EMOC, its EMHC, extra ordinary minister of Holy Communion.

ed

[cappie]

The section you referred to pertains to Bishop Ricken when he was bishop of Cheyenne in 2007. He wrote to a lesbian couple who were publicly identified in a newspaper as getting "married" in Canada. The parish priest said that after the couple put their engagement and marriage announcements in the local paper, he ran reminders of the church’s teachings in the parish bulletin as a warning. After the Ash Wednesday story, the priest sent this letter: “It is with a heavy heart, in obedience to the instruction of Bishop David Ricken, that I must inform you that, because of your union and your public advocacy of same-sex unions, that you are unable to receive Communion.”
The bishop said the couple’s sex life constitutes a grave sin, “and the fact that it became so public, that was their choice.”