St. Kolbe...something He Wrote About The Theotokos...

[Selah]

[quote]"In other writings the Polish friar attempts to describe Mary's deep, intimate union with the Third Person of the Trinity from her conception, by calling Mary the "quasi-incarnation" of the Holy Spirit.13 He is careful to stress that this union "is not of the same order as the hypostatic union linking the human and divine natures in Christ";14 for he repeated often that the Holy Spirit does not dwell in Mary in the same way in which the Eternal Word is present in the sacred humanity of Jesus.15 The notion of the Holy Spirit becoming "in some manner" (quasi) incarnate in Mary may at first seem to be an extreme idea. However, it is somewhat analogous to the statement by St. Louis de Montfort, that "God the Son wishes to form himself, and in a manner of speaking, become incarnate every day in his members through his dear Mother."16 Along the same lines, St. Paul says: "It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me" (Gal. 2:20).[/quote]

[url="http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?id=6547&CFID=122830042&CFTOKEN=96909764"]http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?id=6547&CFID=122830042&CFTOKEN=96909764[/url]

What is meant by "quasi-incarnation" here? Totally confused. I can kind of understand the point made with St. Paul, but then wouldn't that make every Christian a "quasi-incarnation" of Christ?

Help?

[BarbTherese]

Almost finished reading "Eucharist" by FrRobert Barron, sections of the final chapter may speak to your second and final sentence. I haven't sufficiently internalized (if I can!) the concepts in this final chapter to say much more I dont think.
[i]"Eucharist" Orbis Books Maryland NY[/i]

[Aloysius]

I don't like this idea, actually, I think St. Kolbe would've done much better to stick to the traditional terminology that Mary was the spouse of the Holy Ghost, I think that gets accross everything he may have been trying to say about her special connection to the Third Person of the Blessed Trinity without a term that is bound to inspire at least borderline heresy if taken too far.

I think you're right to question it. Just because he's a saint doesn't mean we cannot question his theology. I don't think he was being heretical or anything, but the term is absolutely unnecessary and muddled IMO. and it's a bad use of the term "incarnation" as it is understood theologically; when it is no longer I who live but Christ who lives in me, it would be improper to say that Christ is incarnated in me, or quasi-incarnated even, it's just a terrible use of the terminology.

the Holy Ghost did indeed dwell within Mary in a special way compared to the way He dwells in all of the faithful, but it was a similar way, special only because of her unique relationship with the Holy Ghost and how fully she expressed the grace that filled her.

[filius_angelorum]

I think the point being made in the quote is that, unlike the ordinary Christian, Mary had a special bond with the Trinity from the moment of her conception, from the moment of her flesh coming into being. Thus, she was always representing and acting on the influence of the Holy Spirit. However, I think it is important to distinguish between terms that are useful for private and prayerful meditation and those that are useful for theological study. The former has as its object the conversion of hearts, for which it is more or less useful, the latter, the conversion of minds, for which it is more or less precise.

[mortify]

Peace in Christ during this Lenten season

[quote name='Aloysius' timestamp='1330704131' post='2395322']
I don't like this idea, actually, I think St. Kolbe would've done much better to stick to the traditional terminology that Mary was the spouse of the Holy Ghost, I think that gets accross everything he may have been trying to say about her special connection to the Third Person of the Blessed Trinity without a term that is bound to inspire at least borderline heresy if taken too far.
[/quote]

Before we judge, we have to remember we are dealing with a translation of a Polish phrase. It may or may not accurately represent what St Maximillian had said, but for the sake of discussion, let's presume it's accurate. Going off what Saleh had quoted, "quasi-incarnate" can never become heretical because the phrase itself plainly says we are not dealing with an incarnation, but something resembling and incarnation. The question is, whether this is true or not. I do not have the depth of knowledge a mystic like St Maximillian possessed, but I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, and here's why.

Incarnation is proper to Christ because He[i] is [/i]the absolute union between Divine and human nature. In Him the goal of the spiritual life, union with God, is not only made possible but also perfected. As hard as we try, it is impossible for us to reach the union that Christ possesses by His hypostatic union. There is a person however who has come closest to achieving that union, and her name is the Virgin Mary. And although there is an infinite chasm between her and Christ, there is also an unfathamable chasm between her and us. St Louis De Monteforte once described Mary as all the oceans of the earth combined, and us mere shot-glasses of water. This greatness of Mary is due to her Fiat, that is, her perfect submission and conformity to the Will of God. But as it has come to be understood, Mary's Fiat was not the cause, but the [i]effect[/i] of the extraordinary graces bestowed on her through the union of God (the oceans of grace St Louis De Montefort spoke of.) Since Mary was preserved from original sin, she was united to God in an extraordinary ways since the beginning of her conception. And since the Holy Spirit was united to her, like no other, it is true that her conception (properly understood) resembled the incarnation of the Holy Ghost. In essence, her union with the Holy Ghost was tightened as much as is possible for a human to achieve, without ever remotely reaching the Hypostatic Union our Lord possessed.

But again, I a mere drop of water will never reach the depth of a jug like St Maximillian.

In Christ,
Mort

[Aloysius]

I still don't like it. It's a bad use of the term "incarnation" IMO. That's not to say I'm at all comparing my personal piety with that of St. Kolbe or questioning at all his holiness, mysticism, or orthodoxy. But I still object to the use of the term (and I have a feeling it wouldn't have been translated with the term "incarnation" if it were not the Polish equivalent of that word, it's such a particular word I don't think anyone would loosely translate something else with that term). I think we have a perfectly fine term that expresses all the good parts of what Maximillian was saying here: Spouse of the Holy Spirit.

this is the earthly theology of a saint... there is earthly theology of St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas and St. John Chrysostem and St. Pius X and Servant of God John Paul II... none of it gets declared inerrant upon cannonization, so I do feel free to criticize any of it from any of those figures... I don't consider myself at all on equal footing with their holiness in life or even their intellectual understandings, but I have a mind and I will converse with their theological ideas as I would with any other Catholic's intellectual ideas, even if I know them to be vastly intellectually superior to me, they could be wrong on this or that matter.

mortify, your reflection is a good one, but reading it I am even further convinced that the terminology of espousal fits best here. that her life was the closest union of any human being with the Holy Spirit while on earth is wholly apparent to me, which is why she is the Spouse of the Holy Spirit. the analogy to the incarnation of the Second Person, I guess I see the point a little bit, but it's highly problematic to me. but in St. Max's defense, it is certainly an [i]analogy[/i], understood in the way mortify explained above.