Question For Grad Students

[HopefulBride]

[quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1330530349' post='2394478']
The requirements haven't changed. I knew exactly what was required, and four undergraduate philosophy classes were a prerequisite to enter. No problem, I had them. The registrar agreed, and it never occurred to me to get it in writing. Silly me, I thought her word would be sufficient. Now I've been told that only one of my 30 hours will count. They want me to take 3 more undergrad philosophy classes.

Now before everyone starts telling me how wonderful and spiritual and theological philosophy is, don't bother. I detest philosophy. As far as I am concerned, it is a bunch of guys with nothing better to do sitting around talking just to hear their heads rattle. I think the biggest problem in seminary education is that seminarians can spout off Kant and Lonergan by heart, but have no real world street smarts. I'd rather have a priest whose undergrad is in psychology or child development or even business sitting across a desk from me when I need real priestly advice.

My last philosophy instructor was in love with Bernard Lonergan. He just babbled on and on. I wanted to shoot myself. I literally wrote exams in gobbledly-gook. I thought up the most outlandish, non-nonsensical things I could, pulling rambling incomplete sentences out of my arse, and made the highest grades in the class. I turned in one assignment that was a two page long sentence. One sentence that had no real subject or verb. I got an A+. It was like something someone on LSD would write. I just don't have the time or interest for drivel.

I'm just going to put my time into finishing my next book. I have asked to have my name removed from the scholarship.
[/quote]

Well you can fight using the argument that you were admitted based on the undergrad courses that were accepted. Did they perhaps give you your curriculum map at the beginning of the program indicating what classes you would need? Hopefully there's something there that lists just the grad classes with the credit for previous undergrad work.

[Brother Adam]

[quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1330530349' post='2394478']
The requirements haven't changed. I knew exactly what was required, and four undergraduate philosophy classes were a prerequisite to enter. No problem, I had them. The registrar agreed, and it never occurred to me to get it in writing. Silly me, I thought her word would be sufficient. Now I've been told that only one of my 30 hours will count. They want me to take 3 more undergrad philosophy classes.

Now before everyone starts telling me how wonderful and spiritual and theological philosophy is, don't bother. I detest philosophy. As far as I am concerned, it is a bunch of guys with nothing better to do sitting around talking just to hear their heads rattle. I think the biggest problem in seminary education is that seminarians can spout off Kant and Lonergan by heart, but have no real world street smarts. I'd rather have a priest whose undergrad is in psychology or child development or even business sitting across a desk from me when I need real priestly advice.

My last philosophy instructor was in love with Bernard Lonergan. He just babbled on and on. I wanted to shoot myself. I literally wrote exams in gobbledly-gook. I thought up the most outlandish, non-nonsensical things I could, pulling rambling incomplete sentences out of my arse, and made the highest grades in the class. I turned in one assignment that was a two page long sentence. One sentence that had no real subject or verb. I got an A+. It was like something someone on LSD would write. I just don't have the time or interest for drivel.

I'm just going to put my time into finishing my next book. I have asked to have my name removed from the scholarship.
[/quote]

[img]http://www.thoughtsfromaconservativemom.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/plato-and-aristotle.jpg[/img]

Aristotle does not approve! I understand what you mean though. Given our modern era and the history of the Enlighenment I believe a strong education in philosophy is very important for priests and gives them one of the foundations they need for good homilies an to be able to defend the faith. Philosophy of the Human Person was one of my favorite classes. Some philosophers drive me crazy and there are obviously a great number of professors that don't know what they are talking about. I can't stand Kirkegaard myself. I had one philosophy teacher in school who was also a universalist Christian at a time when I was a fundamentalist. It was interesting.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1330479725' post='2394310']
What would you think if you were 75% through with your program, 4 years and much money invested, to be told that you would be required to take 12 additional hours. Not just any old classes either, but classes in a subject you detest. Classes that you had made sure you wouldn't have to take before initial enrollment. I literally made sure my prior coursework would count towards this requirement before enrolling in my first class. Now out of the blue I'm told I have to take four more classes before I can begin work on my dissertation. Had I known they would do this to me, I wouldn't have stepped foot in the place.

Funny thing is I just endowed a scholarship there. I'll have nothing more to do with them. I guess I'll look for another program to transfer my credits to. Schools don't want that many transferred, so I'll miss most. This has been a hard day.
[/quote]
Just say no. They admitted you and accepted those credits and by God you will graduate WITH them or else. Every registar has a boss who has a boss and I doubt if they want the bad publicity and stink and the loss of a scholarship.

[CatherineM]

I'm having lunch with the Archbishop and the Dean on Saturday. At least we will have something interesting to talk about. I could have been a great advocate for the school in a time when lay enrollment is way down. Now I will be the opposite.

I'm adamant. I don't need the classes, I don't want them, I will absolutely not take them. I was plainly lied to and I think it was done intentionally. They should have picked on a different housewife.

[cmotherofpirl]

Yes they did. And I think they will live to regret it .

[BG45]

I agree that they're going to regret it...that's just awful. I know here, we tell every transfer student that comes through our advising office I work at "But don't take my word for it, get it in writing in case the agreement changes with the other school or someone at the Registrar's office changes their mind."

[cmaD2006]

[quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1330535799' post='2394503']
I'm having lunch with the Archbishop and the Dean on Saturday. At least we will have something interesting to talk about. I could have been a great advocate for the school in a time when lay enrollment is way down. Now I will be the opposite.

I'm adamant. I don't need the classes, I don't want them, I will absolutely not take them. I was plainly lied to and I think it was done intentionally. They should have picked on a different housewife.
[/quote]

Boy, I'd want to be a fly on the wall for *that* meeting.

[HopefulBride]

[quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1330535799' post='2394503']
I'm having lunch with the Archbishop and the Dean on Saturday. At least we will have something interesting to talk about. I could have been a great advocate for the school in a time when lay enrollment is way down. Now I will be the opposite.

I'm adamant. I don't need the classes, I don't want them, I will absolutely not take them. I was plainly lied to and I think it was done intentionally. They should have picked on a different housewife.
[/quote]

That's right! You put your foot down and don't budge.

[AnneLine]

My undergrad major was world and comparative literature emphasizing classics and applied theology. I totally understand where you are coming from as I had to fight to not repeat a bunch of classes, too.

No wonder you are loaded for bear. I just hate it that you have come this far to have this happen - I'd see if someone else can fight this battle with the school for you--all they need to do is honor the bargain they made for you. If ANYONE else got classes comped out, you should be able to do this, too.

I hope that the Archbishop and Dean can help with this.... because in losing you they lose not just a benefactor but a wonderful would-be alumna. I can also see where this is so low on your priorities (given the rest of what is going on (but that in another thread).


P.S. - all of you were right about my not-well-thought-out comment about St. Catherine of Siena - of course she would be wonderful at this kind of bureaucratic battle and in standing up for T R U T H!!! My apologiies to her and all of her devotees!

All I was trying to say is that CatherineM also has the practical common sense and fighting spirit of the other two women doctors - Teresa nd Therese. I would not want to be the school facing down ANY of them -- much less the FOUR of them! No insult was intended, and I trust that no harm has come to any Dominicans (or non-Dominicans like myself!) in the making of this thread!

[missionseeker]

[quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1330530349' post='2394478']
I turned in one assignment that was a two page long sentence. One sentence that had no real subject or verb.
[/quote]

Impressive.
[quote name='Brother Adam' timestamp='1330532897' post='2394487']
[img]http://www.thoughtsfromaconservativemom.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/plato-and-aristotle.jpg[/img]

Aristotle does not approve! I understand what you mean though. Given our modern era and the history of the Enlighenment I believe a strong education in philosophy is very important for priests and gives them one of the foundations they need for good homilies an to be able to defend the faith. Philosophy of the Human Person was one of my favorite classes. Some philosophers drive me crazy and there are obviously a great number of professors that don't know what they are talking about. I can't stand Kirkegaard myself. I had one philosophy teacher in school who was also a universalist Christian at a time when I was a fundamentalist. It was interesting.
[/quote]

That was my favorite class. It literally changed my life.

[AnneLine]

I've been thinking (very dangerous, thinking....)

There was one undergrad class I had been waiting for for years to take (did my BA over a number of years, and it was a senior year class). It was a philosophy class entitled 'humanism & mysticism'. Wow.... thought it would be wonderful. Figured it would be the lynch pin of all my academic work... I couldn't wait!

TUrned out to be the WORST class of my life.... because the professor had an agenda and spent the whole time arguing that it was impossible to be orthodox in faith and a mystic. To say that she probably didn't like having me in her class any more than I liked being there is the understatement of the year!. It took me a few years to understand that what was ripping my soul apart was she was implying that I couldn't exist.... and I was pretty sure I did. (BTW, this was NOT in a Catholic college... but none of my other classes had EVER been a problem... got a greaat education at the state college I attended, and was blessed to have some WONDERFUL Catholic professors who let me incorporate spirituality into my literature curriculum. LOVE professors who really have a gift & charism for teaching!

I bring it up becuase while I know Catherine doesn't want to take (nor does she have any intention of taking!) the prereqs (and I think it is unfair of them to require it at this point), sometimes a different teacher can make a world of difference. I am sure grateful that Professor was not the FIRST philosphy teacher I had had or I might have missed out on some great classes. Unfortuantely it was the last semester of my senior year and I had to take the class from her.

Mention it in case anyone else might be in a similar spot at some point... if what is happening in a class seems odd, run what is going on with a different teacher or someone else who knows the material and that you trust to see if it is the subject, you, or the instructor... often it is the latter..... I was fortunate to have someone who totally confirmed my suspicions and kept me sane that semester....

Wish Phatmass had been around back then... might have been even MORE irritating to said teacher. Yes, I am a wicked woman!

Catherine, every prayer for wisdom for you on this one...

[rhetor4christ]

I can't wait to see what their reaction is to all of this. You might find another unversity will welcome you with arms wide open after hearing about this situation, and also (yes, I'll say it) if you come with a certain endowment contingent upon your graduation. It's sad when money speaks louder than morals, values, and education.

[Basilisa Marie]

I'm currently wrangling with financial aid and housing in order to come up with something to cover my summer courses, and because of this thread I'm going to make sure everything's in writing, even if it's just an email.

[Innocent]

Maybe it's a case of God "Drawing straight with crooked lines" using the sneakiness of certain academic administrators to get you to go through an intellectual experience that you probably wouln't explore of your own free will?


Maybe this is an unlooked-for opportunity to offer up some mortifications? (The timing of this incident is on the spot, anyway.)





Or maybe I'm just being stupid with my suppositions?




At any rate, I hope that this situation is finally resolved in a way that makes you happy.

Edited March 2, 2012 by Innocent