Much Practical Wisdom In This :

[BarbTherese]

Thomas Merton apparently had problems with some Church Teaching in the latter part of his life, so I thought I would put this into debate. Although nothing below contravenes what The Church teaches, I thought to be safe I would put it in this forum. It does remind me of St Therese and just how she really did surpass herself absolutely and became a Doctor of The Church - in accepting herself, warts and all, and as beloved by God :

The more I thought about what Merton says below, the more sense it made to me:

[quote]
[b]"Finally I am coming to the conclusion that my highest ambition is to be what I already am. That I will never fulfill my obligation to surpass myself unless I first accept myself and, if I accept myself fully in the right way, I will already have surpassed myself. For it is the unaccepted self that stands in my way and will continue to do so as long as it is not accepted. "[/b]

[i]A Search for Solitude[/i].
Edited by Lawrence S. Cunningham (San Francisco, HarperSanFrancisco, 1996): 220
[/quote]


It is in accepting and loving ourselves, warts and all, that we learn to be fully accepting and loving of all others and their warts and all. Not to love oneself in an egotistical sort of way, but because one is a beloved child of God - as are all.

[dairygirl4u2c]

good post
much wisdom
great author

[BarbTherese]

Thank you for your post.
He is a favourite of mine too! Seems he went a 'bit off the rails', I have heard, in the latter part of his life when he became interested in Buddhism and eastern religions generally apparently. But I try never to 'throw out the baby with the bathwater'. He has some important things to say at times and down to earth and practical wisdom - insightful.

[BarbTherese]

Another insight from the pen of Thomas Merton:


[size=3][quote]Fear is the knowledge of ourselves in the presence of God's holiness. It is the knowledge of ourselves in His love, and it sees how far we are from being what His love would have us be. It knows Who He is and who we are! - [/size][size=3][size=3][i]No Man Is An Island[/i] (New York: Harvest Book, 1983): 225 [/quote][/size][/size]


[size=3][size=3]A simple explanation, I thought, of Fear of The Lord. It is not a being afraid of The Lord as it is a trembling before The Infinite, knowing oneself and who one is and 'to sight' something of the Glory of God. His Infinite Love and Holiness. And to know something of the absolute and infinite distance between the realities of creature and God.[/size][/size]

Edited March 1, 2012 by BarbaraTherese

[AccountDeleted]

BT - I have to admit that every time I see Merton's name, I get very cautious. Sure, a lot of what he wrote in the early years is very good, but his theology became a little suspect as his interest in Eastern religions grew stronger, until some of what he wrote actually appeared to border on heresy, if not actually pass the line.

I would just caution anyone who reads him, to make sure that what he is saying is trustworthy because not all of his writings are. Here is a link that gives some cautions and advice about which writings are best.

[url="http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=8377"]http://www.catholicc...cfm?recnum=8377[/url]


As for the sayings that you posted, here are my comments on these...

Quote

[size=3][b]"Finally I am coming to the conclusion that my highest ambition is to be what I already am. That I will never fulfill my obligation to surpass myself unless I first accept myself and, if I accept myself fully in the right way, I will already have surpassed myself. For it is the unaccepted self that stands in my way and will continue to do so as long as it is not accepted. "[/b][/size]

Personally, I am not interested in 'surpassing' myself. I would prefer to be smaller rather than larger in myself and to let God be big in my life. I am not sure that 'ambition' is a word I would use in relation to my spiritual life but there is no reason to be nitpicking I suppose. I just know from personal experience of having been involved in Eastern religions prior to becoming a Catholic, that they often focus on the 'self' because they don't have a true concept of God as a being Himself, especially not as a personal being who loves each individual. So, rather than trying to 'accept myself', I prefer to see myself as flawed, and yet still loved by God as I am because He created me, not because I am 'acceptable' already. If that were so, then Jesus would not have had to die for my sins. I do admit however, that he adds the words 'in the right way' when he talks about accepting himself, but he leaves it ambiguous what 'the right way' is.

In fact, the second quote you included seems far more in tune with Catholic thinking and makes me wonder if perhaps it wasn't written earlier than the other one. It comes from No Man Is an Island which was published first in 1955. The other quote you say comes from A Search for Solitude which appears to be a collection of Merton's work from 1952-1960 and perhaps was written later than the other quote. Anthony Clark says to be cautious of anything written from 1966 onwards and although this must have been written prior to to 1966, it still seems a little 'self' focused to me.

Here is the second one you quoted.

[size=3][b]"Fear is the knowledge of ourselves in the presence of God's holiness. It is the knowledge of ourselves in His love, and it sees how far we are from being what His love would have us be. It knows Who He is and who we are!"[/b][/size]

This seems much more in line with Catholic thinking. It doesn't try to say that we are alright, but that we are far from being what God would have us be. And yet, Merton doesn't say here that it lessens us in any way to be less than God. It creates a fear of God, which is an awareness of His holiness.

I think perhaps your main issue is that we are not to despise ourselves... and with this I agree, but perhaps I agree for a different reason. Not because we are, as Merton seemed to imply in one quote, because we are already acceptable to ourselves (or to God), but because we are created by God, and DESPITE our imperfection, He loves us. That doesn't mean we don't need to strive to be better, because it should always be our aim to please Him and to want to be more like Him ('Be perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect.') but that we can rest in the knowledge that He will love us always simply because He has created us, and He is love.

It is interesting to think about these things, but as I say, Merton wandered very far into territory where I feel uncomfortable now, having left that all behind when I came to Jesus. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, yes, but don't forget to throw the bathwater out either!

[BarbTherese]

I'm surprised to see you contributing again, nunsense. I am hoping that all is unfolding very happily.

I did warn about Merton's writings in one of my posts - and that I try never to' throw out the baby with the bathwater'. A lot of what Merton has to say has value. I too am wary when reading Merton and some of the things he had to say were too far off for me - and this seems to have occured in the latter part of his life when he was interested in eastern religions and Buddhism, as I mentioned in my first post. For these reasons I put the thread into a debate forum.

Certainly, Merton's book "Opening The Bible" 'unlocked' Scripture for me and I fell in love with Scripture and then theology through Scripture and this has lasted since my late teens - now 66yrs old. I dont know exactly when he wrote the book, but I suspect in his earlier years.

Like all words, it depends on how we understand them I guess. I rather look at the first Merton quote you give as meaning that our real self is the whole package of our acceptable and unacceptable self as it were. Or 'good me' and 'bad me'. What we know as positive in our selfhood and what we may need to address as not very positive. To surpass one's self one needs to abandon/overcome the "unacceptable self" (edit; - or more accurately, to have an ardent desire to do so and to strive honestly to do so. Not for self perfection, but for love of God). God loves us warts and all as I said and you underscored, but this does not mean that I never try to address and correct what I know to be 'unacceptable' not to God's All Embracing Love but to myself as a person striving for holiness. Although anything that is not perfect is unacceptable to God, which is what Purgatory is about. It depends how we understand things. St Therese - our 'little' saint and theologian - accepted herself warts and all, but she never did cease striving to address what was 'not acceptable' in a person striving for holiness, or her faults and failings, imperfections. What she did achieve however and which is a holy attainment, is that she never lost Peace of Soul over her faults and failings and simply because she grasped well that God does love us warts and all. St Therese did really surpass herself to become a Doctor of The Church - but that was never her goal. Rather her goal was to become so small that she wished she could vanish altogether and in the doing The Holy Spirit revealed through her, or ratherunderscored through her, aspects of our theology that did go against many concepts of her day about holiness.

God's Love acceptancing us warts and all does not mean that there is no call to address those warts and I think you agree with this. There is a need for a certain amount of self focus on the spiritual way which is really all about balance in a sense. If we are entirely self focused, then we have lost our way somewhere.

Merton does write concepts that are a self focus but I tend towards that we are never going to love our neighbour warts and all until we do know, embrace and in Peace of Soul accept ourselves knowing our warts and all - but he also many more concepts that are about loving neighbour and outward looking. The one I read this morning about sunrise was beautiful and a reflection on nature per se and sunrise.

I think that though we use different words, nunsense, but our concepts are the same/similar.

[quote]we can rest in the knowledge that He will love us always [/quote]


And no matter what!

Edited March 6, 2012 by BarbaraTherese

[BarbTherese]

How I came to read "On Opening The Bible" was that a contemplative nun I knew recommended I read "The Men and Message of The Old Testament" It was a very expensive book, so I got it out the Catholic Lending Library here and nearly went cross eyed and mentally exhausted trying to read and understand it. It was much too much for me back then. So on returning the book largely unread, I browsed through the Scripture Section and came across "Opening The Bible" by Merton - it was only a small book compared to the former and by far and flicking through a few pages of Opening The Bible, I found I could understand and borrowed it. It enthralled me and I later bought a copy but lent it out and lost it. I see that it is still available and intend to purchase it again.
After reading [i]Opening The Bible[/i], I read [i]The Seven Storey Mountain[/i] and then many years later [i]Contemplation in a World of Action[/i].

[BarbTherese]

[b]To live for oneself alone is to die. We grow and flourish in our own lives in so far as we live for others and through others. What we ourselves lack, God has given them. They must complete us where we are deficient.[/b]

[i]Thomas Merton. Seasons of Celebration. (New York: Farrar, Straus & Giroux, 1950): 229[/i]


[b]Sunrise is an event that calls forth solumn music in the very depths of man's nature, as if one's whole being has to attune itself to the cosmos and praise God for the new day, praise Him in the name of all the creatures that ever were or ever will be.[/b]

[size=3]
[i]Conjectures of a Guilty Bystander (New York: Image): 280[/i][/size]

[BarbTherese]

Nunsense, a bit of research and I see that things are unfolding very happily indeed and that you enter the Benedictines on 27th March 2012. God's blessings and much Peace and Joy in your Benedictine vocational journey!

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='BarbaraTherese' timestamp='1331022628' post='2396788']
Nunsense, a bit of research and I see that things are unfolding very happily indeed and that you enter the Benedictines on 27th March 2012. God's blessings and much Peace and Joy in your Benedictine vocational journey!
[/quote]


Barb - sorry I haven't responded, I'm only on phatmass from Sat night til Sun night during Lent. I do email and use the Internet for other things, but since phatmass is something I love, it is one of the 'luxuries' I am doing without. That, and giving up sweeteners in tea or coffee, which is actually turning out to be much hard than anything else I have ever given up and I look forward to my Sundays with great enthusiasm.

My sister (an agnostic who joking refers to herself as a heathen) has given up alcohol for Lent and she was delighted when I told her that Sundays are exempt, and treated as 'mini-Easters'. She says it makes it a lot easier for her (she loves her glass of wine), especially since her Lenten promise isn't even a religious one, it's just an exercise in self-control.

So, yes, all is on track for the convent. I actually leave Oz on the 22nd and enter OLR on the 26th. They have had one death (an elderly nun) and one birth (their first lamb of the season, named Joey after St Joseph), born on the day of the funeral for their sister. The Lord takes away and the Lord gives.

[BarbTherese]

[size=4][sub]Wonderful news, nunsense! My prayers will follow you in religious life and please keep me in yours. I rely on the religious I know to keep me in their prayers and on track - so far so good. More than a few times up a creek and round a bend but thankfully right back down again and on track once more. My director (religious) asked me to draw a river that depicts my life - it turned out to be quite a map!!![/sub][/size]

[size=4][sub] I had thought that probably you had limited use of the computer. I think I read somewhere in a post (least I think it was you) that you will be able to contribute to Phatmass once you actually enter - probably on a limited basis. But contribution none the less. I am hoping so as you are pretty good at knowing where you are at and sharing it with open hearted honesty. The thing about knowing where one is at and having a gift to express it is that this can be of such great help to others. And it would be such a gift and a blessing to be able to follow you through the various stages of religious life.[/sub][/size]

[size=4][sub]The 26th! Feast of The Annunciation - a great day indeed - and an easy one for me to remember as your day of entrance into religious life. My prayer especially will be that the Benedictines will prove "the place". [/sub][/size]

[size=4][sub]Indeed all is The Lord's to both give and to take - as He surely guides us to Himself.[/sub][/size]

[size=4][sub]God bless and may He continue to ever enrich you and our journey even further................Barb[/sub][/size]