What Is The Position Of Mary In Catholic Church? What Is The Place Of

[Guest snap1234]

Catholic claims that mary is...
*full of grace
*free of original sin
*kept from all actual sin

can u show me where in the scripture is this?? what are ur bases?? it is not Biblical to teach mary that was conceived without original sin and committed no actual sin. to say that mary is "full of grace" does not mean mary is sinless. Scripture also said that Steven, Elisabeth, and others were full of grace yet no one claims they were sinless..

and why u catholic believe that mary is still a virgin after Jesus came? the Bible said in Matthew 12 and Mark 6 shows that mary had other children.


and why catholic has given mary a title of "Mediatrix of All Graces" "co-redemptix of Jesus"? Mary cannot be CO-Mediatrix and Co-Redemptrix with Jesus ... since the Bible states that "There is only One Mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus.. and only Jesus can forgive man's sins.

[MIKolbe]

What a phenomenal question(s)!

This seems to be a bit of a shotgun approach. Which, hey, it's your perogative. I have found that taking a question at a time and running through it may enhance the 'clarity' for all involved. The hard part is that it takes alot of focus. If you are open to this, let us know and we can oblige. Or, be prepared for an onslaught of answers that may be hard to decipher. I am more a fan of the 'let's take one thing at a time concept'.. as I get confused terribly easily. LOL

If you want to pick one question in Marian theology as a starting point, that would be a good start. If you want to proceed in that manner.

[EmilyAnn]

I could try explain in my own words but since the work has already been done by those much more eloquent than myself I will direct you to them.

[url="http://www.ewtn.com/faith/Teachings/marya1.htm"]Overview of Marian Doctrine[/url]
[url="http://www.catholic.com/tracts/mary-ever-virgin"]Mary: Ever Virgin[/url]
[url="http://www.catholic.com/tracts/mary-full-of-grace"]Mary: "Full of Grace"[/url]
[url="http://www.catholic.com/tracts/brethren-of-the-lord"]"Brethren of the Lord"[/url]
[url="http://www.catholic.com/tracts/immaculate-conception-and-assumption"]Immaculate Conception and Assumption[/url]
[url="http://www.ewtn.com/faith/Teachings/marya4a.htm"]Church Teaching on Mary, Mediatrix of All Graces[/url]
[url="http://www.ewtn.com/faith/Teachings/MARYA4.HTM"]Mary, Mediatrix of All Graces[/url]
[url="http://www.ewtn.com/faith/Teachings/marya2.htm"]Mary's Immaculate Conception[/url]
[url="http://www.ewtn.com/faith/Teachings/maryc2.htm"]The Perpetual Virginity of Mary[/url]
[url="http://jimmyakin.com/the-key-to-understanding-mary"]The Key to Understanding Mary[/url]

[Archaeology cat]

Hi, Snap. Kolbe is right that it can be more productive to ask one at a time. The links EmilyAnn provided should also be helpful.

I can address some of your questions, though. Unfortunately, Koine Greek is not one of the dead languages I know. I seem to prefer ones without written vowels. So I cannot get into the breakdown of the word used for "full of grace", but in reading what others have written, it shows that this does indeed indicate sinlessness. PhatCatholic has the breakdown on his blog, actually.

The Bible actually doesn't state that Mary had other children. In one place James and Joses are called Jesus' brothers, and in other identified as the sons of another Mary. What this shows is the way familial ties were constructed. In Hebrew (and thus in ancient Jewish society), all male relatives were called "brother". There was no Hebrew word for cousin, and language not only determines how we express ourselves, but how we think of things. So even though the NT was written in Greek (though I believe there's a question about Matthew being written in Aramaic first), and Greek has words for cousin, those words weren't used,not because they were biological brothers but because of the Hebrew mindset. We see this in the OT, too, when Lot is called Abraham's brother, though he was his nephew; the Greek word adelphos was used in the Greek translation of that passage, too. If you know more than one language, you may also have experienced this. I know when I would write in German, I would tend to use English expressions still, just translated into German, which didn't really allow for the different German expressions and constructions (one more reason I prefer dead languages). Back to the Bible, though. If Mary had other children, then it makes no sense for Jesus to entrust her to John, who was not a blood relation.

I'll stop with that for now. But may I ask that you allow yourself to truly look at what we say, without your mind already made up? That you examine what Scripure, Tradition, and history trly tell us, and not what you think they say? I do not say this to be mean or attack, I promise (hard to express it as well on a phorum). I say it because I know I used to ask questions like these, not to learn,but to try to prove Catholics wrong. I started with the assumption that Catholics were wrong, and didn't allow for the possibility that my understanding was flawed. I finally did truly examine things without my preconceived ideas in place, and found the truth of the Church.

May God bless you.

[Archaeology cat]

Oh, and here's the thing from Phat Catholic'sblog: http://phatcatholic.blogspot.com/2009/07/in-defense-of-marys-sinlessness-part-1_27.html

[Papist]

[quote name='snap1234' timestamp='1330323748' post='2393512']
Catholic claims that mary is...
*full of grace
*free of original sin
*kept from all actual sin

can u show me where in the scripture is this?? what are ur bases?? it is not Biblical to teach mary that was conceived without original sin and committed no actual sin. to say that mary is "full of grace" does not mean mary is sinless. Scripture also said that Steven, Elisabeth, and others were full of grace yet no one claims they were sinless..

and why u catholic believe that mary is still a virgin after Jesus came? the Bible said in Matthew 12 and Mark 6 shows that mary had other children.


and why catholic has given mary a title of "Mediatrix of All Graces" "co-redemptix of Jesus"? Mary cannot be CO-Mediatrix and Co-Redemptrix with Jesus ... since the Bible states that "There is only One Mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus.. and only Jesus can forgive man's sins.
[/quote]

Before we use the Bible as the only way to answer your questions, let's establish some things. Where in the Bible does it say that all Truth/Revelation is contained in the Bible, and only in the Bible? And why should we believe the Bible[as we know it today] is the inspired word of God?

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1330348104' post='2393550']


Before we use the Bible as the only way to answer your questions, let's establish some things. Where in the Bible does it say that all Truth/Revelation is contained in the Bible, and only in the Bible? And why should we believe the Bible[as we know it today] is the inspired word of God?
[/quote]Important questions to address.

[Selah]

Please. You aren't asking questions. You're baiting them; you're accusing them before they even have a chance to answer it.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='snap1234' timestamp='1330323748' post='2393512']
Catholic claims that mary is...
*full of grace
*free of original sin
*kept from all actual sin

can u show me where in the scripture is this?? what are ur bases?? it is not Biblical to teach mary that was conceived without original sin and committed no actual sin. to say that mary is "full of grace" does not mean mary is sinless. Scripture also said that Steven, Elisabeth, and others were full of grace yet no one claims they were sinless..

and why u catholic believe that mary is still a virgin after Jesus came? the Bible said in Matthew 12 and Mark 6 shows that mary had other children.


and why catholic has given mary a title of "Mediatrix of All Graces" "co-redemptix of Jesus"? Mary cannot be CO-Mediatrix and Co-Redemptrix with Jesus ... since the Bible states that "There is only One Mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus.. and only Jesus can forgive man's sins.
[/quote]

Ok. before we start answering specific points, you need to understand the basics.
Jesus Christ didn't write a book, he founded a Church.
The New Testament is a book about His Church, compiled BY the Catholic Church.
The New Testament never claims to be the sole source of Christianity, it can't because it was never intended to be.

Once you understand this, we can proceed.
The Church started at Pentecost, long before any NT was written down.

Any questions?

[Papist]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1330362971' post='2393604']
Ok. before we start answering specific points, you need to understand the basics.
Jesus Christ didn't write a book, he founded a Church.
The New Testament is a book about His Church, compiled BY the Catholic Church.
The New Testament never claims to be the sole source of Christianity, it can't because it was never intended to be.

Once you understand this, we can proceed.
The Church started at Pentecost, long before any NT was written down.

Any questions?
[/quote]

And...

"It is this disciple who testifies to these things and has written them, and we know that his testimony is true.There are also many other things that Jesus did, but if these were to be described individually, I do not think the whole world would contain the books that would be written." Gospel of John 21:24-25

[Jaime]

[quote name='snap1234' timestamp='1330323748' post='2393512']
Catholic claims that mary is...
*full of grace


can u show me where in the scripture is this?? what are ur bases?? it is not Biblical to teach mary that was conceived without original sin and committed no actual sin. to say that mary is "full of grace" does not mean mary is sinless. Scripture also said that Steven, Elisabeth, and others were full of grace yet no one claims they were sinless..


[/quote]

From the First Chapter of Luke
[quote] [sup]27[/sup]To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.
[sup]28[/sup]And the angel being come in, said unto her: [b]Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women[/b].
[/quote]

I don't recall where it says Elizabeth or Steven were full of grace

Scriptural

[Archaeology cat]

The "blessed art thou among women" is another example of a Hebrew construction, even though it is in Greek. Hebrew doesn't have comparatives or superlatives, so if you want to say that someone is the most blessed, you say they are blessed among the entire group. Sorry, I love language. God bless.

[Guest]

@ Papist We do believe the Bible is the inspired word of God right ?

[Papist]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' timestamp='1330432926' post='2393990']
@ Papist We do believe the Bible is the inspired word of God right ?
[/quote]

Yes. But why? I know this sounds like a crazy question, but have you ever seriously considered it. It seems to me that most Christians (Catholics and non-Catholics alike) just accept that the Bible is inspired without giving it a second thought. What is the reason for this? Is it because your parents and teachers told you it was or because when you read scripture you feel inspired by it or because scripture itself states that "[i]all scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, so that everyone who belongs to God may be proficient, equipped for every good work[/i]" (2 Timothy 3:16-17)?

If you really take the time to think about it, none of these reasons are good enough to build our system of beliefs on. Parents and teachers have no direct proof or authority to teach us that the Bible is inspired; it comes from their own [u]traditions[/u]! The feeling of inspiration one gets from reading scripture does not guarantee that scripture is inspired. And, many other religious books claim to be inspired, e.g. as the Koran and the Book of Mormon.

So then, how do we know that the Bible is truly inspired?

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1330442612' post='2394035']
Yes. But why? I know this sounds like a crazy question, but have you ever seriously considered it. It seems to me that most Christians (Catholics and non-Catholics alike) just accept that the Bible is inspired without giving it a second thought. What is the reason for this? Is it because your parents and teachers told you it was or because when you read scripture you feel inspired by it or because scripture itself states that "[i]all scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, so that everyone who belongs to God may be proficient, equipped for every good work[/i]" (2 Timothy 3:16-17)?

If you really take the time to think about it, none of these reasons are good enough to build our system of beliefs on. Parents and teachers have no direct proof or authority to teach us that the Bible is inspired; it comes from their own [u]traditions[/u]! The feeling of inspiration one gets from reading scripture does not guarantee that scripture is inspired. And, many other religious books claim to be inspired, e.g. as the Koran and the Book of Mormon.

So then, how do we know that the Bible is truly inspired?
[/quote]

Because the Catholic Church says it is. We compiled the New Testament, and included the Old Testament.