A Secret All Women Should Know

[PhuturePriest]

[quote name='missionseeker' timestamp='1329635393' post='2389300']
well I didn't know until I walked by Jim Bob and Jinger and Jessa and Josh and John David. like.. woah.

I also don't have your number, or I so would have texted you...?
[/quote]

If that had been me, I wouldn't be able to contain myself. I would've walked over there with an awed face, probably not able to say a thing, and just look stupid as they stared at me.

But really, I love the Duggars a lot. I even have a Duggar girl picked out in case the Religious life doesn't work out.

How is this possible, you say? I mean, after all, I'm a Catholic Mary worshipin' Papist! Well, I'm stubborn, and God happens to be stubborn as well, so I'll just woo her with my manly looks and charms, and speak to her about God and about how her skirt compliments her. With our shared ideas about skirts and make-up and such, surely she will be swept off her feet!

Edited February 19, 2012 by FuturePriest387

[HopefulBride]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1329635245' post='2389299']
Why didn't you call me? Ave is not that far from Gainesville...
[/quote]

No gators were allowed.

[AudreyGrace]

Women are the crown of creation. Through our beauty, men see God. I don't think girls (seeing that you apparently addressed the OP to teenage girls) should wear short skirts, low tops, caked on makeup and a liter of cheap perfume. But before we judge them, let's take a practical look at where they are.
As marriages are failing and the amount of girls growing up in homes without fathers or homes where their fathers mistreated them is rising, so are their attitudes towards men falling. When a girl dresses immodestly, what is her intention? Most likely it is because she wants attention, not because she's a wh[i]o[/i]re through and through. Her father probably didn't give her enough healthy attention, and she knows she's guaranteed attention from a man if she dresses provocatively. She's young, an adolescent, and does not necessarily know the difference between receiving attention because of your body verses receiving attention because of your personhood. It certainly doesn't help that the culture is encouraging her in this.
Why would girls wear tons of makeup and a ton of perfume? Probably for a lot of the same reasons as the one I just posted. They're constantly being told that they're not pretty enough, or not as pretty as someone else. Girls don't need to hear these words spoken straight to them- we hear them in how others treat us and the ones around us. We see guys choosing the girls with make up and low shirts, not the ones with modest dress and a natural look. From a young age, our intentions are pure. As women, we are created for union and relationship. We see those girls being in relationships with others, so we use her as our model. If it works for her, it will work for me. Satan is very clever in attacking women in this way. After all, we are his worst enemies other than Christ himself. Hence, this is why the culture equates love with sex and sees "friends with benefits" as something positive. Satan uses the world to encourage women to misuse their feminine gifts, because he knows how much our true womanly warmth and intimacy can bring a man closer to God. These girls have been fooled by the prince of darkness, and we must love them and pray for them before anything else.
What I'm first trying to get at is that you cannot judge a person or their intentions by their appearance or sometimes even by their actions. We all have pasts that affect us. What we see around us and the way we have been treated form us more than anything else. Those girls who dress that way and throw themselves at guys have probably been hurt by men time and time again and are trying to prove their value to themselves and the male population. What they need is love and good friends, not someone telling them that they're bad. Admonish the sinner, but always do everything in love.
Next, I'd like to point out that girls do not have to wear ankle length skirts and refuse to wear makeup in order to be modest. Covering up the body and acting like it is something to be ashamed of is a sin. We were given bodies for a reason. We are human persons with bodies, not angels or spiritual beings. Our bodies are not simply cases for our souls that we get to shed when we die. We have them for eternity and they will rise (hopefully) in the end of times. A woman's calf, shoulder, and neck are not sinful. The way a man chooses to look at them and allow his thoughts to wander, is sinful. A woman's freely willed intention to lead men into sin is sinful. No offense, but if you can't look at a woman who is dressed provocatively or who is flirtatious without automatically feeling drawn into the sin of lust, then you have some things to work on yourself. If you're going to be a priest, you'll witness poorly dressed women in your parish. This is something you'll have to overcome. Do not rely on women to be secure in your manhood. Find God's beautiful gift to you of your intrinsic masculinity and use that as a springboard to grow in your faith and spread a positive message to women rather than a condescending one. When you see a girl who has been tricked by the world, do not allow yourself to get angry, tempted, or "holier than thou". Remember that just as she is, she is a daughter of the King of Kings and she deserves just as much love and pure attention as the girl with no makeup and the ankle length skirt on.
Finally, I'd like to point out that all girls who have been hurt by men and the world's culture are not doomed to be immodest sk[i]a[/i]nks. Personally, my daddly left me when i was 12 after I found out he was having an affair. The man in my life who was supposed to love me unconditionally would prefer life without me. Why then would any guy want me? Then, as a teenager, I was hurt by a guy who thought he could mess with my emotions just because he knew how. Time and time again, men have treated me like cr[i]a[/i]p and I have never deserved it. It's only by the grace and mercy of God that I refuse to throw myself out there in ways that do not reflect my true feminine dignity. I am no better than the girls who dress and act the way you detest so much. I am simply a broken creature in the hands of my God, victim to His Mercy.
Oh, and just to mention: guys who treat women in such a way that makes them feel inferior or hopelessly sinful and damned unless they wear ankle length skirts and no makeup can do [u]just [/u]as much damage as a man who encourages a woman to dress provocatively and have premarital sex. Forcing your opinions on a woman is not going to help her come to the truth of her femininity. Only from a relationship with Christ will that happen. You cannot change women, only God can. By all means, be a voice for modesty and chastity. But all the talking on Catholic forums about dressing modestly (aka preaching to the choir) is virtually pointless. Preach the gospel at all times, if necessary use words (St. Francis). Spread the message of chastity and modesty by affirming women in their natural beauty and choosing the girls who live faithful lifestyles. For starters, try complimenting a girl who is dressed immodestly by saying something unrelated to her attire, like "you have a lovely smile". (by the way, complimenting is not equal to flirting. It's actually kind and appreciative of another's value.) It would be refreshing for her to hear something other than "you look hot" that makes her feel like she's an object on a shelf. Just my own advice, though.
Good luck in your discernment of the priesthood. Remember that wherever God calls us is where we will become as holy as we can. Be open to God's working in your heart, no matter where he leads you. You're a teenager and have plenty of years ahead of you that God cannot wait to transform you with. Peace be with you.

[FutureCarmeliteClaire]

[quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1329625178' post='2389216']
And perhaps some other people can be hypersensitive at times too. I know some of you younger ones don't want to accept this fact, but there are (physical) differences in the brain as it matures, and the generally accepted age for full physical brain maturity is 25 (with individual variations of course). Young persons are especially sensitive it seems to being called 'young' or 'teenager' but that's what they are. And experience does make a difference. Would you want a pilot who had just finished flight training or one who had years of experience behind him? It's the same for anything in life, time changes our views and and opinions and helps us to realise that being dogmatic about our opinions doesn't really demonstrate maturity.

FP said some valuable things but the WAY that he said them caused others to react... so perhaps instead of just being angry that others have called him to account, he should try to look at himself, and the way he phrased things. It isn't always what we say, but HOW we say that gets the message across.

edited for stupids typos - probably missed some too - sorry.
[/quote]
I totally agree with nunsense.

FYI, FP and mysis, you guys are giving us young ones a bad rep. Seeing as all this reaction is coming straight for the young ones because of the bad delivery of the original post, I think we all need to be more careful before we post. Because, FP, you are 15, and that has obviously been pointed out on here, there have been a lot of comments grouping all of us "young ones" together. Let's just be careful, guys.

[FutureCarmeliteClaire]

[quote name='AudreyGrace' timestamp='1329654679' post='2389326']
Women are the crown of creation. Through our beauty, men see God. I don't think girls (seeing that you apparently addressed the OP to teenage girls) should wear short skirts, low tops, caked on makeup and a liter of cheap perfume. But before we judge them, let's take a practical look at where they are.
As marriages are failing and the amount of girls growing up in homes without fathers or homes where their fathers mistreated them is rising, so are their attitudes towards men falling. When a girl dresses immodestly, what is her intention? Most likely it is because she wants attention, not because she's a wh[i]o[/i]re through and through. Her father probably didn't give her enough healthy attention, and she knows she's guaranteed attention from a man if she dresses provocatively. She's young, an adolescent, and does not necessarily know the difference between receiving attention because of your body verses receiving attention because of your personhood. It certainly doesn't help that the culture is encouraging her in this.
Why would girls wear tons of makeup and a ton of perfume? Probably for a lot of the same reasons as the one I just posted. They're constantly being told that they're not pretty enough, or not as pretty as someone else. Girls don't need to hear these words spoken straight to them- we hear them in how others treat us and the ones around us. We see guys choosing the girls with make up and low shirts, not the ones with modest dress and a natural look. From a young age, our intentions are pure. As women, we are created for union and relationship. We see those girls being in relationships with others, so we use her as our model. If it works for her, it will work for me. Satan is very clever in attacking women in this way. After all, we are his worst enemies other than Christ himself. Hence, this is why the culture equates love with sex and sees "friends with benefits" as something positive. Satan uses the world to encourage women to misuse their feminine gifts, because he knows how much our true womanly warmth and intimacy can bring a man closer to God. These girls have been fooled by the prince of darkness, and we must love them and pray for them before anything else.
What I'm first trying to get at is that you cannot judge a person or their intentions by their appearance or sometimes even by their actions. We all have pasts that affect us. What we see around us and the way we have been treated form us more than anything else. Those girls who dress that way and throw themselves at guys have probably been hurt by men time and time again and are trying to prove their value to themselves and the male population. What they need is love and good friends, not someone telling them that they're bad. Admonish the sinner, but always do everything in love.
Next, I'd like to point out that girls do not have to wear ankle length skirts and refuse to wear makeup in order to be modest. Covering up the body and acting like it is something to be ashamed of is a sin. We were given bodies for a reason. We are human persons with bodies, not angels or spiritual beings. Our bodies are not simply cases for our souls that we get to shed when we die. We have them for eternity and they will rise (hopefully) in the end of times. A woman's calf, shoulder, and neck are not sinful. The way a man chooses to look at them and allow his thoughts to wander, is sinful. A woman's freely willed intention to lead men into sin is sinful. No offense, but if you can't look at a woman who is dressed provocatively or who is flirtatious without automatically feeling drawn into the sin of lust, then you have some things to work on yourself. If you're going to be a priest, you'll witness poorly dressed women in your parish. This is something you'll have to overcome. Do not rely on women to be secure in your manhood. Find God's beautiful gift to you of your intrinsic masculinity and use that as a springboard to grow in your faith and spread a positive message to women rather than a condescending one. When you see a girl who has been tricked by the world, do not allow yourself to get angry, tempted, or "holier than thou". Remember that just as she is, she is a daughter of the King of Kings and she deserves just as much love and pure attention as the girl with no makeup and the ankle length skirt on.
Finally, I'd like to point out that all girls who have been hurt by men and the world's culture are not doomed to be immodest sk[i]a[/i]nks. Personally, my daddly left me when i was 12 after I found out he was having an affair. The man in my life who was supposed to love me unconditionally would prefer life without me. Why then would any guy want me? Then, as a teenager, I was hurt by a guy who thought he could mess with my emotions just because he knew how. Time and time again, men have treated me like cr[i]a[/i]p and I have never deserved it. It's only by the grace and mercy of God that I refuse to throw myself out there in ways that do not reflect my true feminine dignity. I am no better than the girls who dress and act the way you detest so much. I am simply a broken creature in the hands of my God, victim to His Mercy.
Oh, and just to mention: guys who treat women in such a way that makes them feel inferior or hopelessly sinful and damned unless they wear ankle length skirts and no makeup can do [u]just [/u]as much damage as a man who encourages a woman to dress provocatively and have premarital sex. Forcing your opinions on a woman is not going to help her come to the truth of her femininity. Only from a relationship with Christ will that happen. You cannot change women, only God can. By all means, be a voice for modesty and chastity. But all the talking on Catholic forums about dressing modestly (aka preaching to the choir) is virtually pointless. Preach the gospel at all times, if necessary use words (St. Francis). Spread the message of chastity and modesty by affirming women in their natural beauty and choosing the girls who live faithful lifestyles. For starters, try complimenting a girl who is dressed immodestly by saying something unrelated to her attire, like "you have a lovely smile". (by the way, complimenting is not equal to flirting. It's actually kind and appreciative of another's value.) It would be refreshing for her to hear something other than "you look hot" that makes her feel like she's an object on a shelf. Just my own advice, though.
Good luck in your discernment of the priesthood. Remember that wherever God calls us is where we will become as holy as we can. Be open to God's working in your heart, no matter where he leads you. You're a teenager and have plenty of years ahead of you that God cannot wait to transform you with. Peace be with you.
[/quote]
Oh, Audrey, that was a fantastic post that must have taken a lot of guts. Great advice and words.

[Archaeology cat]

Very well said, Audrey! My own journey towards modesty has taken a long time. As a teen, I wore the bikinis, short skirts, etc, as I wanted attention and didn't think about being respected for who I am. I hope I can teach my daughter better. Can't say I wear make-up or perfume, but that's not due to modesty. I'm allergic to many perfumes, and have very sensitive skin ( and would probably be too lazy to deal with make-up anyway). I do have a hard time finding long skirts that I like. oh well, c'est la vie.

[LinaSt.Cecilia2772]

[quote name='AudreyGrace' timestamp='1329654679' post='2389326']
Women are the crown of creation. Through our beauty, men see God. I don't think girls (seeing that you apparently addressed the OP to teenage girls) should wear short skirts, low tops, caked on makeup and a liter of cheap perfume. But before we judge them, let's take a practical look at where they are.
As marriages are failing and the amount of girls growing up in homes without fathers or homes where their fathers mistreated them is rising, so are their attitudes towards men falling. When a girl dresses immodestly, what is her intention? Most likely it is because she wants attention, not because she's a wh[i]o[/i]re through and through. Her father probably didn't give her enough healthy attention, and she knows she's guaranteed attention from a man if she dresses provocatively. She's young, an adolescent, and does not necessarily know the difference between receiving attention because of your body verses receiving attention because of your personhood. It certainly doesn't help that the culture is encouraging her in this.
Why would girls wear tons of makeup and a ton of perfume? Probably for a lot of the same reasons as the one I just posted. They're constantly being told that they're not pretty enough, or not as pretty as someone else. Girls don't need to hear these words spoken straight to them- we hear them in how others treat us and the ones around us. We see guys choosing the girls with make up and low shirts, not the ones with modest dress and a natural look. From a young age, our intentions are pure. As women, we are created for union and relationship. We see those girls being in relationships with others, so we use her as our model. If it works for her, it will work for me. Satan is very clever in attacking women in this way. After all, we are his worst enemies other than Christ himself. Hence, this is why the culture equates love with sex and sees "friends with benefits" as something positive. Satan uses the world to encourage women to misuse their feminine gifts, because he knows how much our true womanly warmth and intimacy can bring a man closer to God. These girls have been fooled by the prince of darkness, and we must love them and pray for them before anything else.
What I'm first trying to get at is that you cannot judge a person or their intentions by their appearance or sometimes even by their actions. We all have pasts that affect us. What we see around us and the way we have been treated form us more than anything else. Those girls who dress that way and throw themselves at guys have probably been hurt by men time and time again and are trying to prove their value to themselves and the male population. What they need is love and good friends, not someone telling them that they're bad. Admonish the sinner, but always do everything in love.
Next, I'd like to point out that girls do not have to wear ankle length skirts and refuse to wear makeup in order to be modest. Covering up the body and acting like it is something to be ashamed of is a sin. We were given bodies for a reason. We are human persons with bodies, not angels or spiritual beings. Our bodies are not simply cases for our souls that we get to shed when we die. We have them for eternity and they will rise (hopefully) in the end of times. A woman's calf, shoulder, and neck are not sinful. The way a man chooses to look at them and allow his thoughts to wander, is sinful. A woman's freely willed intention to lead men into sin is sinful. No offense, but if you can't look at a woman who is dressed provocatively or who is flirtatious without automatically feeling drawn into the sin of lust, then you have some things to work on yourself. If you're going to be a priest, you'll witness poorly dressed women in your parish. This is something you'll have to overcome. Do not rely on women to be secure in your manhood. Find God's beautiful gift to you of your intrinsic masculinity and use that as a springboard to grow in your faith and spread a positive message to women rather than a condescending one. When you see a girl who has been tricked by the world, do not allow yourself to get angry, tempted, or "holier than thou". Remember that just as she is, she is a daughter of the King of Kings and she deserves just as much love and pure attention as the girl with no makeup and the ankle length skirt on.
Finally, I'd like to point out that all girls who have been hurt by men and the world's culture are not doomed to be immodest sk[i]a[/i]nks. Personally, my daddly left me when i was 12 after I found out he was having an affair. The man in my life who was supposed to love me unconditionally would prefer life without me. Why then would any guy want me? Then, as a teenager, I was hurt by a guy who thought he could mess with my emotions just because he knew how. Time and time again, men have treated me like cr[i]a[/i]p and I have never deserved it. It's only by the grace and mercy of God that I refuse to throw myself out there in ways that do not reflect my true feminine dignity. I am no better than the girls who dress and act the way you detest so much. I am simply a broken creature in the hands of my God, victim to His Mercy.
Oh, and just to mention: guys who treat women in such a way that makes them feel inferior or hopelessly sinful and damned unless they wear ankle length skirts and no makeup can do [u]just [/u]as much damage as a man who encourages a woman to dress provocatively and have premarital sex. Forcing your opinions on a woman is not going to help her come to the truth of her femininity. Only from a relationship with Christ will that happen. You cannot change women, only God can. By all means, be a voice for modesty and chastity. But all the talking on Catholic forums about dressing modestly (aka preaching to the choir) is virtually pointless. Preach the gospel at all times, if necessary use words (St. Francis). Spread the message of chastity and modesty by affirming women in their natural beauty and choosing the girls who live faithful lifestyles. For starters, try complimenting a girl who is dressed immodestly by saying something unrelated to her attire, like "you have a lovely smile". (by the way, complimenting is not equal to flirting. It's actually kind and appreciative of another's value.) It would be refreshing for her to hear something other than "you look hot" that makes her feel like she's an object on a shelf. Just my own advice, though.
Good luck in your discernment of the priesthood. Remember that wherever God calls us is where we will become as holy as we can. Be open to God's working in your heart, no matter where he leads you. You're a teenager and have plenty of years ahead of you that God cannot wait to transform you with. Peace be with you.
[/quote]

You are amesome. Thank you for posting this.

[Blessed&Grateful]

I cannot take the OP seriously, not for his "secret information" nor his blame game. I find it odd that he repeatedly brings up the Duggar girls. Seems he has quite the "desire" for them. Yet they conform to what he describes as the "perfect" female. In psychological terms you are displaying projection and displacement.

I highly suggest you speak to a priest or SD to help you sort out these issues.

Prayers for you.

[missionseeker]

the duggar. girls wear makeup. I mean there are scenes of them getting ready to go places putting makeup on....

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Blessed&Grateful' timestamp='1329667797' post='2389357']
I cannot take the OP seriously, not for his "secret information" nor his blame game. I find it odd that he repeatedly brings up the Duggar girls. Seems he has quite the "desire" for them. Yet they conform to what he describes as the "perfect" female. In psychological terms you are displaying projection and displacement.

I highly suggest you speak to a priest or SD to help you sort out these issues.

Prayers for you.
[/quote]

They are not "issues" or "psychological " problems, he is a fairly normal 15 year-old idealistic male. I applaud him for his honesty and willingness to learn.

[beatitude]

I have always dressed modestly (even as a teenager). I never did so for any boy. I put no thought into what might or might not attract a boy. My dress simply reflected how I relate to my body, and to God - both very private things. My body is a sacred space to me, and so I treat it that way. It's the same for everyone, male and female.

A girl shouldn't dress modestly because it might attract a guy. She should do it for herself and for God and for nobody else. The same applies to men.

It is pretty common for men to blame their thoughts and actions on women's clothing choices. We even have horrible situations where people will defend rape because the woman had on revealing clothes and was supposedly 'asking for it'. On a less serious but still sexist note, we have people tut-tutting at the immodesty of teenage girls and trying to police their clothing choices - something that they would never do when it's teenage guys.

Modesty is about more than dress. It's about humility and kindness, and modest clothes are simply a reflection of an inner state of being. Hectoring girls over clothing choices that you don't like isn't a modest action. People deserve to be treated with dignity and respect no matter what they're wearing, and that will sometimes mean laying your own strong opinions to one side.

As for the way relationships should and shouldn't be initated, I can think of few things more damaging to each partner than trying to create rigid roles and boundaries. If somebody feels 'emasculated' by having a woman express interest in him, then his concept of masculinity is far too bound up with the idea of power to be healthy. Women feel and they will express that feeling. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. There's also nothing wrong with being a man who is a bit too shy to make the first move. People's personalities are not dictated by their gender alone.

[FutureCarmeliteClaire]

[quote name='missionseeker' timestamp='1329667858' post='2389359']
the duggar. girls wear makeup. I mean there are scenes of them getting ready to go places putting makeup on....
[/quote]/
I was going to say that too.

[PhuturePriest]

[quote name='beatitude' timestamp='1329672932' post='2389384']
I have always dressed modestly (even as a teenager). I never did so for any boy. I put no thought into what might or might not attract a boy. My dress simply reflected how I relate to my body, and to God - both very private things. My body is a sacred space to me, and so I treat it that way. It's the same for everyone, male and female.

A girl shouldn't dress modestly because it might attract a guy. She should do it for herself and for God and for nobody else. The same applies to men.

It is pretty common for men to blame their thoughts and actions on women's clothing choices. We even have horrible situations where people will defend rape because the woman had on revealing clothes and was supposedly 'asking for it'. On a less serious but still sexist note, we have people tut-tutting at the immodesty of teenage girls and trying to police their clothing choices - something that they would never do when it's teenage guys.

Modesty is about more than dress. It's about humility and kindness, and modest clothes are simply a reflection of an inner state of being. Hectoring girls over clothing choices that you don't like isn't a modest action. People deserve to be treated with dignity and respect no matter what they're wearing, and that will sometimes mean laying your own strong opinions to one side.

As for the way relationships should and shouldn't be initated, I can think of few things more damaging to each partner than trying to create rigid roles and boundaries. If somebody feels 'emasculated' by having a woman express interest in him, then his concept of masculinity is far too bound up with the idea of power to be healthy. Women feel and they will express that feeling. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. There's also nothing wrong with being a man who is a bit too shy to make the first move. People's personalities are not dictated by their gender alone.
[/quote]

Well, you're not the first one to imply I treated women that wear bikinis and such are scum, but never do you see me say that on this thread, or anywhere else. Women that wear bikinis are not scum. Rather, they wear them for the reasons above.

When I mention that I myself prefer skirts over bikinis, I simply meant to say that despite what society tells you, men really do think modesty is attractive, and that if you want to attract the right kind of guys, modesty is the way to go. Modesty attracts men. The men you want to attract. The men that don't want you for your body, but see your modesty and they see what it says about you.

I believe you're going off my first post. Did you read any of my others that clarified everything? I believe I said twice that women can talk to a man first, and can in subtle ways show they are interested, but it's better if the man initiates the relationship, and it's definitely a must that the man proposes. Guys, imagine you were on a date with the girl of your dreams. You've been dating for two years, and you couldn't possibly love a human being more than you love this girl. You go on a walk on the beach, and she starts to talk about how she loves you, and wants to spend the rest of her life with you, and then she gets down on one knee, offers a ring and asks you to marry her. As Jason Evert says, the entire concept is so emasculating. Why? Because the man is the initiator. It's his role. When a woman takes the man's role, he feels emasculated.

[PhuturePriest]

[quote name='FutureCarmeliteClaire' timestamp='1329674342' post='2389392']
/
I was going to say that too.
[/quote]

It's never overwhelming, though. I can tolerate a little make-up, but I can't stand overwhelming make-up. If I wanted to court Ronald McDonald I would've asked him, thank you.

[PhuturePriest]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1329671422' post='2389372']


They are not "issues" or "psychological " problems, he is a fairly normal 15 year-old idealistic male. I applaud him for his honesty and willingness to learn.
[/quote]

If there's one thing I have going for myself, it's blatant honesty. I'm not very afraid to voice my opinions. I will bravely voice my Social Conservative views and Conservative values as long as it's behind a machine.