blacksheep Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Hi, Well this is my first post here and thought I would get to know everybody. Thought I would do this by talking about something somewhat controversial. Personally I'm not a literalist when it comes to certain parts of the bible. To be honest that's not really the point of the bible now is it? But when I was a kid I was. God created us out of the dust of the ground and that was that. Then they taught evolution in school and I started to be confilcted...because evolution made some tangible sense. I was able to see transitions, get a better understanding of the past and see how creatures react to their environment and surroundings. Where as the bible just said, God created everything and that is all you need to know. Now I can see where the conflic begins. Being in a world dominated by science and technology, this just doesn't hold up anymore. Evolution is the new standard and fights break out because of it. The thing is...I don't see how this conflicts with the teachings of the bible at all. When looking at genesis the main message is "God created everything." Plain and simple. It debunks the notion of multiple gods in forms of plants, animals, man, and even the stars...truthfully though this kind of thinking hasn't changed much if you look at the world..but I digress. Even in transition of creation god starts with the cosmos, the earth, then the seas...he creates the creatures in the sea first, then creates the creatures of the land. Don't we see the same transition in evolution? Next issue is man being evolved from apes. This is where I think the fights break out. We are all told we are created from the dust of the earth into the image of God. Now this probably could be hard to swallow for any scientist, but I still don't see a problem. In biblical standards couldn't this mean that we were created in the image of christ who was to come millions of years later after earths conception? Also what else could "image of God" mean? What seperates us from the animals? I think it's our ability to love, show compassion, solve problems, and unyeilding curiosity that really shows the beauty of God. I think that's it for now. Let me know what you think. If i'm dead wrong. If my argument is faulty or not strong enough. One thing you do notice is that I didn't use any references...which is pretty vital for arguments, but I try to keep things simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacksheep Posted February 14, 2012 Author Share Posted February 14, 2012 Hi, Well this is my first post here and thought I would get to know everybody. Thought I would do this by talking about something somewhat controversial. Personally I'm not a literalist when it comes to certain parts of the bible. To be honest that's not really the point of the bible now is it? But when I was a kid I was. God created us out of the dust of the ground and that was that. Then they taught evolution in school and I started to be confilcted...because evolution made some tangible sense. I was able to see transitions, get a better understanding of the past and see how creatures react to their environment and surroundings. Where as the bible just said, God created everything and that is all you need to know. Now I can see where the conflic begins. Being in a world dominated by science and technology, this just doesn't hold up anymore. Evolution is the new standard and fights break out because of it. The thing is...I don't see how this conflicts with the teachings of the bible at all. When looking at genesis the main message is "God created everything." Plain and simple. It debunks the notion of multiple gods in forms of plants, animals, man, and even the stars...truthfully though this kind of thinking hasn't changed much if you look at the world..but I digress. Even in transition of creation god starts with the cosmos, the earth, then the seas...he creates the creatures in the sea first, then creates the creatures of the land. Don't we see the same transition in evolution? Next issue is man being evolved from apes. This is where I think the fights break out. We are all told we are created from the dust of the earth into the image of God. Now this probably could be hard to swallow for any scientist, but I still don't see a problem. In biblical standards couldn't this mean that we were created in the image of christ who was to come millions of years later after earths conception? Also what else could "image of God" mean? What seperates us from the animals? I think it's our ability to love, show compassion, solve problems, and unyeilding curiosity that really shows the beauty of God. I think that's it for now. Let me know what you think. If i'm dead wrong. If my argument is faulty or not strong enough. One thing you do notice is that I didn't use any references...which is pretty vital for arguments, but I try to keep things simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selah Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 The idea that we "evolve from apes" is, based upon my own research, a faulty one. The idea is that the ape and the human share a common ancestor. I see no reason as to why we should discredit evolution. Frankly, in this day and age, I am surprised it is still "controversial." The Sacred Scriptures are not meant to be taken literally or figurativly. As an Orthodox Christian poster once put it, the Bible is a mysteriological fact. I do not take the creation story as historical, nor the flood story. The Scriptures need not be "literal" or even "figurative" to be fact. Evolution does not contradict creation, because evolution is the miracle. I think the problem lies in Christians trying to make the Scriptures out to be a history/science book. That is not why we have them; they point to Christ, not to scientific or historical breakthroughs. Selah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Here is some of what I think about it, fwiw. We are apes. We have a common ancestor with the other modern apes (e.g., with the two extant species of chimpanzee approximately 6 Ma ago). I don't have a problem with people saying "we evolved from apes" because we are apes, and our recent ancestors were apes. Insisting on scientific taxonomy in casual conversation can be kind of pedantic. (Although I suppose when I hear "we evolved from monkeys?" I feel the need to clarify the question at the risk of pedantry.) For me, one of the more important and profound revelations of science is the deep interconnectedness of all life. In our evolutionary history, in our cells, in the structure of our genes and our brains, in our behavior and emotions, we are profoundly the same as the other apes, and all other animals. Compared to most forms of life we are not so distinct from the mammal-like reptiles of our past, or from other vertebrates in general (I imagine an amoeboid scientist thinking we all look alike, hehe). I sometimes like to think of us as particularly exotic fish. We are a small part of a multi-billion year history. We are a product and a manifestation of the microcosmos. We are in a sense intricate and vast microbial ecosystems; trillions of cells, many of them only loosely part of "us." We are aquatic environments analogous to the primordial seas where life began, carrying our small piece of the biota through space and time. To me none of this is derogatory or deflationary, quite the opposite in fact. The epic history of the cosmos is our history. The birth of the universe, the emergence of hydrogen and helium, the first stars and galaxies, the fusion of the primary constituents of life in stars, the production of heavier elements in star death and supernovae, the coalescence of this absolutely exquisite planet. I like that we were not dropped into this world from outside. We were fused in the core of stars, our parts blasted into being in unimaginable hypernovae explosions; and once biology and evolution came to be we unfolded as a part of a superorganism, over vast expanses of time, in accord with supremely elegant and beautiful mathematical structures written into the deepest fabric of reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Just bought some chairs from an unemployed astronaut. Good price. I threw in a McDonald's coupon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 [quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1329247527' post='2387015'] Just bought some chairs from an unemployed astronaut. Good price. I threw in a McDonald's coupon. [/quote] For that, I will make you drink several liters of diet coke and then eat a tube of mentos! Bastage! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 [quote name='Laudate_Dominum' timestamp='1329247425' post='2387013'] Here is some of what I think about it, fwiw. We are apes. We have a common ancestor with the other modern apes (e.g., with the two extant species of chimpanzee approximately 6 Ma ago). I don't have a problem with people saying "we evolved from apes" because we are apes, and our recent ancestors were apes. Insisting on scientific taxonomy in casual conversation can be kind of pedantic. (Although I suppose when I hear "we evolved from monkeys?" I feel the need to clarify the question at the risk of pedantry.) For me, one of the more important and profound revelations of science is the deep interconnectedness of all life. In our evolutionary history, in our cells, in the structure of our genes and our brains, in our behavior and emotions, we are profoundly the same as the other apes, and all other animals. Compared to most forms of life we are not so distinct from the mammal-like reptiles of our past, or from other vertebrates in general (I imagine an amoeboid scientist thinking we all look alike, hehe). I sometimes like to think of us as particularly exotic fish. We are a small part of a multi-billion year history. We are a product and a manifestation of the microcosmos. We are in a sense intricate and vast microbial ecosystems; trillions of cells, many of them only loosely part of "us." We are aquatic environments analogous to the primordial seas where life began, carrying our small piece of the biota through space and time. To me none of this is derogatory or deflationary, quite the opposite in fact. The epic history of the cosmos is our history. The birth of the universe, the emergence of hydrogen and helium, the first stars and galaxies, the fusion of the primary constituents of life in stars, the production of heavier elements in star death and supernovae, the coalescence of this absolutely exquisite planet. I like that we were not dropped into this world from outside. We were fused in the core of stars, our parts blasted into being in unimaginable hypernovae explosions; and once biology and evolution came to be we unfolded as a part of a superorganism, over vast expanses of time, in accord with supremely elegant and beautiful mathematical structures written into the deepest fabric of reality. [/quote] You have watched Babylon 5 way too many times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrestia Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 This is just my opinion: The Holy Bible isn't a science textbook. (There are 2 different stories of creation in Genesis, so it can't be literal). God did create everything, which means that science is also His creation. As far as I am concerned, evolution and Christianity can & do coexist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deus te Amat Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 The funny thing is, the Catholic Church is in full support of evolutionary theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisa Marie Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 The Catholic Church doesn't demand that we take the Bible literally. Actually, to do so goes against how the early Christians and Church Fathers did their scriptural exegesis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle_eye222001 Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) If you have a few minutes, here are some links you should find interesting. Let me know what you think. [url="http://www.catholic.com/video/is-genesis-to-be-understood-figuratively"]http://www.catholic....od-figuratively[/url] [url="http://www.catholic.com/tracts/creation-and-genesis"]http://www.catholic....ion-and-genesis[/url] [url="http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xii/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xii_enc_12081950_humani-generis_en.html"]http://www.vatican.v...generis_en.html[/url] Edited February 15, 2012 by eagle_eye222001 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 I don't think there's a problem with evolution. Could God not use evolution to create material? I personally don't see God as folding His arms, the nodding His head and blinking...then poof all is made. I don't think science can back that up. It's the Darwinian evolution that is the problem. If man evolved from apes, then what did apes evolve from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selah Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) [quote]If man evolved from apes, then what did apes evolve from? [/quote] Again; it's not that, but that apes and humans share a common ancestor. [url="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6937476.stm"]http://news.bbc.co.u...ure/6937476.stm[/url] [url="http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/prehistoric_life/human/human_evolution/index.shtml"]http://www.bbc.co.uk...ion/index.shtml[/url] [url="http://humanorigins.si.edu/"]http://humanorigins.si.edu/[/url] [url="http://www.becominghuman.org/"]http://www.becominghuman.org/[/url] Edited February 15, 2012 by Selah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 [quote name='Papist' timestamp='1329315689' post='2387413'] If man evolved from apes, then what did apes evolve from? [/quote] Dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 [quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1329322316' post='2387462'] Dogs. [/quote] Sounds reasonable.[quote name='Selah' timestamp='1329317130' post='2387423'] Again; it's not that, but that apes and humans share a common ancestor. [url="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6937476.stm"]http://news.bbc.co.u...ure/6937476.stm[/url] [url="http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/prehistoric_life/human/human_evolution/index.shtml"]http://www.bbc.co.uk...ion/index.shtml[/url] [url="http://humanorigins.si.edu/"]http://humanorigins.si.edu/[/url] [url="http://www.becominghuman.org/"]http://www.becominghuman.org/[/url] [/quote] It wasn't a serious question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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