Liberal And Catholic?

[Hey_Pauly]

I started a topic like this over in the Catholic Answers Phorum but it has since been locked. I am guessing that the reason is that it would fit better in this Phorum.

I grew up Catholic and have gone to church some as an adult but not consistently. I know that I need to find a church home but none of the options available to me feel like home as much as the Catholic Church does. Is it possible to be a liberal and a Catholic?

Thanks,


Pauly

[LinaSt.Cecilia2772]

To a certain extent there is a way to be liberal and a Catholic. There are many Pro-life liberals that I know, and it all depends on the way you see the world, it's politics, it's issues, etc. I would consider myself to be a Liberal Catholic because I have seen and been a part of many different things in my lifetime that have shaped my point of views to be more of the liberal type but to a certain extent. I know there aren't very many people with these views, but I consider myself to be a pro-life liberal.

Don't know if that answers anything, but it's my two cents on the matter.

[Amppax]

[quote name='Hey_Pauly' timestamp='1329077493' post='2385981']
I started a topic like this over in the Catholic Answers Phorum but it has since been locked. I am guessing that the reason is that it would fit better in this Phorum.

I grew up Catholic and have gone to church some as an adult but not consistently. I know that I need to find a church home but none of the options available to me feel like home as much as the Catholic Church does. Is it possible to be a liberal and a Catholic?

Thanks,


Pauly
[/quote]

Can you be more specific in what you mean exactly by liberal?

[eagle_eye222001]

[quote name='Hey_Pauly' timestamp='1329077493' post='2385981']
I started a topic like this over in the Catholic Answers Phorum but it has since been locked. I am guessing that the reason is that it would fit better in this Phorum.

I grew up Catholic and have gone to church some as an adult but not consistently. I know that I need to find a church home but none of the options available to me feel like home as much as the Catholic Church does. Is it possible to be a liberal and a Catholic?

Thanks,


Pauly
[/quote]

Catholic Answers probably has seen the thread too many times with the same result too many times.

It is possible to be "liberal" and Catholic, but not "liberal" and Catholic. In other words, you can disagree with the Church on some economic principles (can't be total socialistic though) and some qualified stuff, but you still need to adhere to the Church on one-way issues such as abortion and contraception which can never be justified and are intrinsic evils.

This is why the Church does not literally say, "vote conservative or GOP." The Church says vote pro-life and for the common good.

Your question is why I don't like the terms "liberal Catholic" and "conservative Catholic."

Be a faithful Catholic, and the politics follows. Of course the next question is, what is a "faithful Catholic?" and that is more important to answer.


If you wish to clarify your question, I could answer better. Is there an example you have or can make up?

[Hey_Pauly]

Thanks for the replies.

Here are a couple of my ideas, I am against abortion but not birth control. As well, I see gay marriage as a civil right but I don't think that churches should be forced to perform them against their religious conscience either.

[cmotherofpirl]

Birth control ( the pill) causes doesn't stop you from getting pregnant, simply causes early abortion by keeping the embryo from implanting in the womb. The Church doesn't believe in killing babies at any stage of their existence. How do you justify it?

Nowhere in the constitution or any other document is there a "right" to marriage, it doesn't exist as such. Government's job is to secure our rights, it can't make them up to please a group of extremists. Marriage is a privilege recognized by the state. They are not the same.

Neither of these are accepted by faithful Catholics.
As Catholics we choose to accept the teachings of the Church, we don't pick a Church to fit our beliefs , we change our beliefs to agree with the Church. For all of us, it is a work in progress.

Do you want to discuss why we believe each of these things?



The ethic of inclusion in the gospels could be stated:
You can come as you are and leave behind what you can,
but you may not stay as you were or do as you will.

�The Rt. Rev. Francis Gray

[Archaeology cat]

CMum's right on how hormonal birth control works. If you look up the info, a combined hormonal contraceptive states that it prevents ovulation, changes the cervical mucus to prevent fertilisation (incidentally, a woman's cervix ages 2 years for every 1 year on the pill - not good), and by preventing implantation of the embryo through changing the uterine lining. There is no way to know how often an early abortion happens. Most people know someone who conceived whilst on hormonal contraception (I know a couple of people who did, at least). And the package insert says at it also works by thinning the endometrial lining to make implantation less likely, so it makes you wonder how often that happens. The progestin-only pill, if memory serves, works less by preventing ovulation and more by preventing fertilisation and implantation. Ectopic pregnancies are more common with progestin-only contraceptives, too.

[Libcath2000]

[quote name='Hey_Pauly' timestamp='1329077493' post='2385981']
I started a topic like this over in the Catholic Answers Phorum but it has since been locked. I am guessing that the reason is that it would fit better in this Phorum.

I grew up Catholic and have gone to church some as an adult but not consistently. I know that I need to find a church home but none of the options available to me feel like home as much as the Catholic Church does. Is it possible to be a liberal and a Catholic?

Thanks,


Pauly
[/quote]

I'm not sure if it is sincere to say that one is both 'liberal' (i.e. 'progressive', 'to the left', etc.) and 'Roman Catholic' at the same time.

However, I do feel that one can be both Catholic and liberal (minus the Roman bit).

This to say, that for many former Roman Catholic's who have opted to leave the Church rather than to stay in it and fight for change (whether its women's ordination, reproductive issues, or sexual ethics, etc), have quietly opted out of the Church without causing a "scandal to the faithful" (since after all, they are no longer in full communion with Rome) and have found other spiritual pastures.

In particular, those who may have turned towards Anglicanism, still maintain a similar ethos to the Roman Church, and maintain that they are Catholics in the full sense of the word (despite whatever Rome might say) and continue to promote their more progressive view of Christian living.

So is it possible to be Catholic and liberal? I should think so.
Roman Catholic and liberal? I do not know.

That's my take.

[eagle_eye222001]

[quote name='Hey_Pauly' timestamp='1329079319' post='2385997']
Thanks for the replies.

Here are a couple of my ideas, I am against abortion but not birth control. As well, I see gay marriage as a civil right but I don't think that churches should be forced to perform them against their religious conscience either.
[/quote]

Okay. Well as Catholics, we believe the pope and bishops speak in the name of Christ on matters of faith and morals. We are obligated to defend and hold such beliefs. If we merely pick what we want to believe, than our faith is not really faith, but just what we want.

From Vatican II, [url="http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19641121_lumen-gentium_en.html"]Lumen Gentium[/url] the dogmatic constitution of the Church,

[quote]
[color=#000000]25. Among the principal duties of bishops the preaching of the Gospel occupies an eminent place.(39*) For bishops are preachers of the faith, who lead new disciples to Christ, and they are authentic teachers, that is, teachers endowed with the authority of Christ, who preach to the people committed to them the faith they must believe and put into practice, and by the light of the Holy Spirit illustrate that faith.[/color]
[/quote]


Now, if we struggle with accepting a certain moral teaching, we need to ask ourselves where such a disagreement begins, and why. If we do not have a full understanding of the church's position, we should seek and pray to fully understand it and read up on it. We strive to worship God in everything we do, so our voting and public actions should reflect that. If we put politics before God, do we really believe in God?

After we understand the Church's position, but still disagree with it, we are obligated to continue to pray about it and seek understanding. Also, we cannot publicly advocate the dissenting position. To do so means we do not recognize the shepherds of the faith that Christ has ordained for us, which violates the core basis of Catholicism.

Basically, to be Catholic means we believe that Christ started a teaching Church with a special responsibility. If we do not believe that our bishops and pope have a teaching authority on matters of faith and morals, then we are missing the whole point of Catholicism. And thus should seriously question and examine our whole belief in Catholicism.

For further clarification on contraception, [url="http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_25071968_humanae-vitae_en.html"]Humanae Vitae [/url]

The Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith released a document on proposals on recognizing legal [url="http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20030731_homosexual-unions_en.html"]homosexual unions.[/url] It's not too long, but goes into the matter in depth and details our responsibility as Catholics.



I hope this helps answer your question. If you would like to discuss any of these three topics in further depth and explore and discuss the reasons behind them (church teaching authority, contraception, or recognition of civil unions), feel free to start a thread in open mic or debate table as appropriate.

Pax

[Maggyie]

Congratulations, you are in the same place right now as many (if not most) Catholics.

The key to being a Catholic is to acknowledge that the important thing is not so much where you are right now... but where you are going.

Some people say, "I think contraception is OK, the Church is wrong,"

Others say, "I don't understand why the Church says contraception is wrong. I want to understand."

The latter approach is called forming your conscience. It involves sincere prayer, reading, studying, even fasting. It requires a humble heart, openness to the Holy Spirit and a true desire to believe and do the right thing, even if it means changing your mind.

It is sometimes helpful if you get an orthodox spiritual director or a specific pious priest you go to Confession to, to help you on your journey. It can be tough to keep going, keep praying, and having a counselor like that to keep you focused and accountable is great. It is a process that takes dedication, sometimes years of work. You also won't be successful at it if you have a problem with pride. If you know you have pride issues (most do) it is important to work with the spiritual director/priest on that, at the same time. A lot of people are driven away from the Church in bitterness just at the moment when they begin to suspect the Church has been right all along - because it hurts their pride to admit to themselves that they were wrong. It can be very painful, let me tell you from personal experience. But it is worth it to live with integrity.

Of course if you do work with a counselor, it's important to pick a priest or spiritual director who is on the same page as the Church, who will lead you forward and not get you stuck. If you are talking to a priest or nun or anyone about it and they say "oh that's not an important issue what's the big deal," then drop them, because they're not going to help you keep working on it.

As long as you are sincerely and actively pursuing the truth, there is no one who will not welcome you in the Catholic Church. Even the most devout of us are in various stages of conversion, the common denominator is that we all believe the same thing about who Jesus is and what He does through the Church. The old saying is that the Church is a hospital for sinners, not a museum for saints, so as long as you aren't a saint yet, feel free to rejoin.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Maggie

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

immerse yourself liberally in the holy sacrements,prayer,the holy word,encyclical letters,works of the saints,sacred tradition(sacred tradition i haven't touched yet except bric and brac i get from the popes encyclicals,the saints and the chatechism)and most importantly loving God with are whole heart. Spare no expenses to get saved and stay saved i guess is truely a catholic liberal,one can not think catholic liberal as a political liberal or liberal as in live and let live/anything goes type of liberal. Hope that helps.

Onward christian souls.
Jesus iz LORD.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

p.s. of course if somone tells you to commit mortal sin or break one of the 10 commandments to be saved, one can not do that coz the person would be lying and if catholic possibly unfortunately assuming gods mercy.

[MIKolbe]

I don't understand the question.... why would anyone WANT to be a liberal?

[CatherineM]

I'm a liberal in that I believe in social justice. You can't help people by allowing stronger people to kill more vulnerable people. You don't help people by allowing them to live lives that harm them and others. We certainly don't help people by lying to them about their bodies and the things destructive people want them to put in their bodies.

[Papist]

[quote name='Hey_Pauly' timestamp='1329077493' post='2385981']
I started a topic like this over in the Catholic Answers Phorum but it has since been locked. I am guessing that the reason is that it would fit better in this Phorum.

I grew up Catholic and have gone to church some as an adult but not consistently. I know that I need to find a church home but none of the options available to me feel like home as much as the Catholic Church does. Is it possible to be a liberal and a Catholic?

Thanks,


Pauly
[/quote]

I doesn't matter what parish you find that "feels" good. The doctrine remains the same. Even if the priest there says birth control is ok and supports gay marriage, the Church's teachings remain.