The Tea Party Philosophy: Bill Whittle

[Laudate_Dominum]

What We Believe, Part 1: Small Government and Free Enterprise

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLD6VChcWCE[/media]

What We Believe, Part 2: The Problem with Elitism

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0MESB6VZM4[/media]

The remaining vids in the series:

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkXI-MNSb8Q"]What We Believe, Part 3: Wealth Creation[/url]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TSiJ2Gp058"]What We Believe, Part 4: Natural Law[/url]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRAw3VWVyD8"]What We Believe, Part 5: Gun Rights[/url]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnTus_i2aZI"]What We Believe, Part 6: Immigration[/url]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuv0K8H8ILM"]What We Believe, Part 7: American Exceptionalism[/url]

P.S. I don't mean this in a snarky way at all, but isn't "The Firewall" somewhat reminiscent of "The Vortex"? I wonder who came first (on youtube anyway), Voris or Whittle? Just teasing, this is serious thread...

Edited February 11, 2012 by Laudate_Dominum

[DMcB]

Only watched the first video, but if it is an indicator of what's in the other's, Whittle doing a fine job of representing my views. Thanks for posting, reminded me to check in with PJTV a little more often.

[Era Might]

I'm listening to the video as I write this post...too long to listen closely lol. Sorry.

I wouldn't really define myself as a "conservative." I'm a believer in the march of history. I don't think communism was a big anomaly in history. I think communism was probably the inevitable result of human history, in various ways. It succeeded in the 20th century because the conditions in the world were oriented that way, in various ways. That doesn't mean that communism was the right way, but I think history progresses just as our private lives progress. Sometimes we ruin our lives with drugs, money, power, whatever...and that's true of history. People who are wise and older have a duty to help lead young people with wisdom, but older people can't live young people's lives for them. You have to respect that some people are going to ruin their lives, and hopefully they will unruin it in the future.

I don't believe the Constitution or the American principles of 1776 are perfect principles that we have to "conserve" as though society cannot be conceived of any other way. I am conservative or patriotic in the sense that I think the original American ideals are part of who we are, and we need to learn from them and discover who we are and where we are going. I see personal lives the same way...people need to learn who they are, where they came from, where they are going...and that process is different for everyone.

I was recently reading a few of Plutarch's Roman Lives, and it's amazing how people are always basically the same. Cato the Elder, one of the figures Plutarch writes about, was given a position (I forget the exact name, I think it was Censor or something) where he was basically the moral enforcer of Rome. He wanted to tax or put on trial people who lived too luxuriously. And there were lots of tensions between the poor and the rich, the plebes and the senators, etc.

To me, things like the Tea Party and Occupy Wall Street are both signs of the times...what the signs are, are for the wise among us to try and learn from. I wouldn't dismiss either movement...but I wouldn't necessarily get behind them either. I do think we are probably at a critical moment in our history...but I think history is going to move at its own pace. That is not to say we cannot change the course of history, but the world is changing just as it always has changed. The American idea was pretty much a repudiation of all history...the repudiation of kings. Hardly "conservative." I think history will sort itself out, for good or for bad. I don't dismiss the "spirit of the tea party," but I don't base my life around it. I don't believe you can run America like it's an 18th century society of farmers. The world has changed. The world is changing. Learn from the past, don't dismiss it. But to me, the march of history has priority over the telling of it.

As for the "elitism," it's strange to hear Newt Gingrich deride "the elite media." Isn't that class warfare?

I don't know if anything I just said makes any sense...that's what comes out of my head in 10 minutes of typing, whatever it's worth.

Edited February 11, 2012 by Era Might

[Era Might]

By the way, a small note on immigration. Conservatives are like the kid in the class who speaks up at the end of class if a teacher forgets to give them homework, or who cries because someone cuts in line. My favorite is when someone rails against illegal immigration because "My grandfather waited in line at Ellis Island and came here legally." Um, your grandfather lived across the ocean...how do you know he wouldn't have come here illegally if he had the chance. People are such whining legalists. Immigration is a massive human problem, but the criminalization of illegal immigrants probably annoys me as much as anything. So people cut in line...get over yourself. And yes, I believe in amnesty as a general solution (of course, there will have to be exceptions), although there are lot of practical matters to iron out to actually solve the problems that come with human migration.

Edited February 11, 2012 by Era Might

[Era Might]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' timestamp='1328971851' post='2385381']
P.S. I don't mean this in a snarky way at all, but isn't "The Firewall" somewhat reminiscent of "The Vortex"? I wonder who came first (on youtube anyway), Voris or Whittle? Just teasing, this is serious thread...
[/quote]
He reminds me of Red Sox (and Liverpool) owner John Henry:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3uldG4YFdc&feature=related[/youtube]

Edited February 11, 2012 by Era Might

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' timestamp='1328971851' post='2385381']
P.S. I don't mean this in a snarky way at all, but isn't "The Firewall" somewhat reminiscent of "The Vortex"? I wonder who came first (on youtube anyway), Voris or Whittle? [/quote]

Both of them need a better haircut.....

[arfink]

I don't really buy his theory about the creation of wealth, but then again I'm a stickler about the use of the word "create." I don't believe you can make wealth out of hard work and creativity alone. You need raw materials to transform into salable goods, or you need human beings to provide labor, or you need capitol to invest. You always need SOMETHING to make more wealth, you can't simply say "Today I will exert all my nothing to the MAX and BOOM I'll have wealth!"

[Ed Normile]

[quote name='arfink' timestamp='1329020950' post='2385767']
I don't really buy his theory about the creation of wealth, but then again I'm a stickler about the use of the word "create." I don't believe you can make wealth out of hard work and creativity alone. You need raw materials to transform into salable goods, or you need human beings to provide labor, or you need capitol to invest. You always need SOMETHING to make more wealth, you can't simply say "Today I will exert all my nothing to the MAX and BOOM I'll have wealth!"
[/quote]

Or you could come up with an idea and sell it to a developer. Many people start small businesses which flourish and provide them with a level of wealth that is comfortable to them without any laborers, relying solely on their own labor and iniative, I know many who have become comfortably wealthy mowing lawns, or running small painting businesses, saving their money, investing it wisely and living within their means until they can afford better. Todays youth seems largely to have a viewpoint that they are owed something, that they should be given a great job just because they graduated, to heck with paying back those student loans, unless of course mommie and daddy put them through college. While a few work like no others, taking several menial jobs to survive until they save enough to start the business they want or land that job they were educated for, these are the types that America was built upon, the doers not the complainers but men and woman of action that are willing to sacrifice to attain their goals, thats teh American spirit that has been lost on so many of the entitlement generation.


ed

[arfink]

[quote name='Ed Normile' timestamp='1329023606' post='2385799']
Or you could come up with an idea and sell it to a developer. Many people start small businesses which flourish and provide them with a level of wealth that is comfortable to them without any laborers, relying solely on their own labor and iniative, I know many who have become comfortably wealthy mowing lawns, or running small painting businesses, saving their money, investing it wisely and living within their means until they can afford better. Todays youth seems largely to have a viewpoint that they are owed something, that they should be given a great job just because they graduated, to heck with paying back those student loans, unless of course mommie and daddy put them through college. While a few work like no others, taking several menial jobs to survive until they save enough to start the business they want or land that job they were educated for, these are the types that America was built upon, the doers not the complainers but men and woman of action that are willing to sacrifice to attain their goals, thats teh American spirit that has been lost on so many of the entitlement generation.


ed
[/quote]

Did I say I wanted to be entitled? No. I'm whining about him using the word "create." Sorry if I ticked you off.

I'd love to be able to save and scrimp and start my own business. It'd rock. But again, you need something to have something, so I wouldn't use the word "create" but I might use the word "bootstrap," since I'm geeky. Menial is what I do right now to fill the gaps. So yeah.

[arfink]

Also, there is this strange assumption that menial labor is something that a) everyone can actually do, b) everyone must do at the beginning of their work lives, and c) that it will actually be helpful in starting the path to getting wealth. None of these things are necessarily true, in my experience.

Edited February 12, 2012 by arfink

[Anomaly]

[quote name='arfink' timestamp='1329025363' post='2385814']
Also, there is this strange assumption that menial labor is something that a) everyone can actually do, b) everyone must do at the beginning of their work lives, and c) that it will actually be helpful in starting the path to getting wealth. None of these things are necessarily true, in my experience.
[/quote]Do you really mean menial labor, or do you mean "manual" labor?

[arfink]

I did mean menial, but for a) something everyone can actually do, I should have probably said something more along the lines of "something everyone can make money doing."

[Anomaly]

[quote name='arfink' timestamp='1329025363' post='2385814']
Also, there is this strange assumption that menial labor is something that a) everyone can actually do, b) everyone must do at the beginning of their work lives, and c) that it will actually be helpful in starting the path to getting wealth. None of these things are necessarily true, in my experience.
[/quote]Based on my life experiences in working for almost twice as long as you've been alive:
You are correct that (a) isn't ncessarily true, some people aren't born with the IQ to take care of themselves, and others lack the self discipline to hold a job.
You are partially correct on (b), some people win the lottery or are born into wealthy familes or circumstances.
You are 100% wrong on (c).

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1329079519' post='2385999']
Based on my life experiences in working for almost twice as long as you've been alive:
You are correct that (a) isn't ncessarily true, some people aren't born with the IQ to take care of themselves, and others lack the self discipline to hold a job.
You are partially correct on (b), some people win the lottery or are born into wealthy familes or circumstances.
You are 100% wrong on ©.
[/quote]

i hate not being able to give you props!

[Anomaly]

[quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1329080798' post='2386013']
i hate not being able to give you props!
[/quote]I no longer have any need of receiving props ever since Winchester posted he agreed with me. After that, props just seem.... superferluous. (But THANKS!)