Ewtn Sues U.s. Government To Stop Contraception Mandate

[HopefulBride]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1328818470' post='2384341']
Ok. People also give money to EWTN knowing that a substantial part of that money will go towards taxes which will in turn fund a war that the last Pope (and the current Pope before he ascended to the Papacy) spoke out against quite strongly. Does EWTN not have to pay taxes now? Do you not have to pay a minimum wage law if you think it's a first step towards a socialist hell on earth?
[/quote]

What Nihil said. EWTN is not directly funding this war, it's like trying to treat a pregnant woman and accidentally causing the birth of the child. You don't go in intending to kill the child, do you think every person who pays tax knows that "my specific 300 dollars" are going to fund this war I don't agree with.

This is way different (apples and oranges here) they are asking EWTN and every other Catholic agency to directly fund this.

[4588686]

[quote name='HopefulBride' timestamp='1328819033' post='2384347']
What Nihil said. EWTN is not directly funding this war, it's like trying to treat a pregnant woman and accidentally causing the birth of the child. You don't go in intending to kill the child, do you think every person who pays tax knows that "my specific 300 dollars" are going to fund this war I don't agree with.

This is way different (apples and oranges here) they are asking EWTN and every other Catholic agency to directly fund this.
[/quote]

They aren't directly funding contraception either. They are purchasing an insurance package that covers contraception. But it doesn't matter to my point. You explanation is perfectly reasonable as to why it is different in funding the war from a Catholic perspective. But we're talking about the role of individual conscience in relation to labor law. Forget what the Church says, the state doesn't interpret cannon law, if I as a Catholic say that I don't feel that my conscious doesn't permit me to pay the minimum wage law or honor the eight hour work day in light of Pius XI's pronouncement about socialism, do I get to be exempted from the minimum wage laws? Because by your logic, if I can't pay my employees less than the minimum wage because I believe the minimum wage laws to be a first step towards socialism and socialism is against my conscious, then the state is trampling on my religious freedom.

[Aloysius]

The recent Supreme Court decision actually did, in fact, say that Churches and religious institutions were exempt from certain federal labor laws. By a 9-0 margin, it was unanimous. Religious institutions are permitted to discriminate to a certain degree in their hiring and firing... which is why the Church can have an all-male priesthood, for instance. And that was a religiously affiliated school that hired people that were not affiliated with their religion. So indeed, the precedent IS on the side of religious exemptions from certain Federal labor laws.

oh, and I think monastery-run institutions are generally exempt from minimum wage laws but I guess that's more like they're volunteering... and some of those institutions technically pay their monks a wage except they don't pay it to their monks, they pay it to themselves (I'm thinking of monastery run colleges)

[Socrates]

This illustrates the problems inherent in granting the government the power to forcibly dictate what people give their money to.

We've created a monster, and should not be surprised now that the monster's run amock.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1328817472' post='2384335']
Actually it really does. I'm not saying that it is good policy or good politics, but I don't see a strong constitutional case. Religious institutions have the freedom the express their ideas, They don't have unlimited freedom in activities. Hence why Mormons ran into trouble when they wanted to practice polygamy. More importantly, this law in no way compels the faithful to use contraceptives. The Church's argument is going to have to be essentially that its status as a religious body gives it the right to violate federal labor laws with employees who work in Church affiliated institutions. This doesn't apply to Church employees. There is an exemption for people who work directly for or in churches. This applies to things like hospitals. You don't have any sort of special religious protections when it comes to running a hospital.
[/quote]
The problem with your view is that it essentially grants the federal government unlimited power to dictate whatever it wants and force religious people to violate their consciences in any way its wants, just so long as those whose consciences are being violated are allowed to speak out against it. The government certainly shouldn't be given free reign to make up new dictates which force people to violate their religious conscience.

The free exercise of religion guaranteed in the first amendment should include the freedom of religious people to reasonably live according to the dictates of their conscience, as that is part of exercising one's religion. It shouldn't be restricted to simply allow them to "express their ideas."
The freedom of religious people to "express their ideas" is already covered in the free speech clause of the amendment.


If you rape someone, the fact that you allow them to freely scream in protest is hardly respecting their rights.

The person's still getting raped.

[CatherineM]

My first case was representing a girl who needed heart surgery and her parents were JW's. I argued that they have the total right to religious belief, but their right to religious practice can be limited. Basically their right to religious practice ends where their child's right to life begins. I mean, if someone wanted to practice a religion where child sacrifice was one of the tenets, it wouldn't be allowed. They could believe all they wanted, but they couldn't practice that belief. There is a reason the list "life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness" is in that order. When they conflict, my right to life trumps your right of liberty, etc.

In this situation, our religious practice (pursuit of happiness) is not infringing on anyone's rights of life or liberty. They are free to pursue their happiness at their own expense, even if it damages them. They are free to pursue other employment if they want to work for someone who will pay for their morally objectionable pursuits.

[eagle_eye222001]

And the assembling armies begin their attack.

[inunionwithrome]

May we pray for all of the politicians who have put the Catholic Church in harms way. May God renew their spirits with a sense of corrected pride with defense to the helpless and unborn Americans, Irish, whichever ethnicity you are. May our country stand up as a nation as the Founding Father's laid down the FOUN-DATION for American Liberty. May we pray for Religious Liberty and Freedom rather than freedom from religion. Let us all offer our prayers throughout Lent and this election year we pray. Amen.