fides' Jack Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 I will add that I voted for McCain. And I'll vote for the Republican who battles head-to-head with Obama for next term. I'm telling myself that if conditions make it a greater good, then that makes the action okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Jack, that makes a lot of sense. I understand what you're saying now...thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesus_lol Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 [quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1328927088' post='2385253'] That's two people that said my analogy was bad, but did not explain why. I will continue to insist that it is a good analogy until it is proven not to be. [/quote] I was pretty sure i spent a good bit of time explaining why your analogy is bad... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fides' Jack Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1328923886' post='2385239'] agreed, but i dont see anyone saying that is what will happen. is bob and ted being married torture to you as well? well, we seem to be jumping all over the place on this one. euthanasia and abortion both destroy the body and the soul(of people doing it, allowing it), and torture destroys the body and the soul(of the people doing it, allowing it) gay marriage just seems to "destroy the soul" of the dudes getting married. unless someone wants to contest that torture destroys the soul as much as other violent acts against humanity... its not even an close match. [/quote] Actually, sir, I agree with you. I think unnecessary torture is worse than gay marriage. I don't know when torture might be necessary, but I've seen enough episodes of 24 to not definitely conclude that such a thing is not possible. Still, that's beside the point. You have to understand that Catholics get really hung-up on problems with sexuality. Personally, I think it's because our culture is so perverse that we hate what we see in ourselves, and so we really beat at sins that are not as bad as others, out of our own psychological problems. Since I have a CM tag, I'll try to make this about myself, and not other Catholics - I don't want to sound like I'm speaking for the Church. I'm not worthy to speak for the Church. I am the biggest hypocrite of all, largely due to my religion. I profess that we need to be perfect, and I am most imperfect. But being a hypocrite doesn't make me wrong, it just makes me a sinner. Catholics hate sexual sins, but one thing I like to keep in mind is the order of the 10 Commandments. If we use that for a guide, we have some sort of a measure of just how 1 sin stacks up against another. That being said, torture would fall under 5: Thou shalt not kill. Lusting and adultery fall under #s 9 and 6, respectively. Which means that torture is worse. Let's carry this a little further, though. That means the number 1 worst sin is against the first commandment - not having strange gods before God. #3 - Remember thou keep holy the Lord's day, is more important than making sure you don't torture somebody. Just a little perspective... Edited February 11, 2012 by fides' Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 [quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1328923886' post='2385239'] agreed, but i dont see anyone saying that is what will happen. is bob and ted being married torture to you as well? [/quote] I also recall something St. Paul wrote: "A little yeast affects the whole dough". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Still trying to figure out why Catholics want government mucking about with sacraments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 [quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1328933856' post='2385286'] I was pretty sure i spent a good bit of time explaining why your analogy is bad... [/quote] Yeah, you said, "don't be in a gang that murders and steals". If you followed my analogy, that would mean "leave the country and do not be an American." I think that's dumb, so I didn't accept it as a proper rebuttal to my analogy. Therefore, it is still a great analogy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Domini Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 [url="http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2012/02/santorum-surges-into-the-lead.html"]http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2012/02/santorum-surges-into-the-lead.html[/url] Who would've thought saying what you actually think instead of what the pollsters tell you is popular would prove to go down positively with the voters? As an outsider and observer the Santorum surge is what's making this race so interesting. I don't know enough about Santorum to rate him as a candidate but I appreciate the fact that he's honest about where he's coming from. He's different in that way. Dare I say it change you can believe in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Domini Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 [url="http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2012/02/santorum-surges-into-the-lead.html"]http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2012/02/santorum-surges-into-the-lead.html[/url] Who would've thought saying what you actually think instead of what the pollsters tell you is popular would prove to go down positively with the voters? As an outsider and observer the Santorum surge is what's making this race so interesting. I don't know enough about Santorum to rate him as a candidate but I appreciate the fact that he's honest about where he's coming from. He's different in that way. Dare I say it change you can believe in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 I'll break my analogy down so those that didn't get it might get it... You're in a gang = You're an American You're stuck in the gang = You're stuck in America Vote to steal a car (immoral) = Vote for a anti-abortion, pro-torture president (immoral) Vote to kill the homeless (more immoral) = Vote for pro-abortion, anti-torture president (more immoral) No vote (50/50 chance between steal car or kill homeless) = No vote (50/50 chance between pro-torture or pro-abortion) In both reality and in the analogy, any vote or no vote that is not for the stealing/anti-abortion option, is a vote that either will or might contribute to the killing of innocent life. The only way you can guarantee that you are not culpable for the killing of the innocent life is if you vote for the lesser of two evils. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKolbe Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 your analogy needs a face so I can make fun of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesus_lol Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) [quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1328998874' post='2385571'] I'll break my analogy down so those that didn't get it might get it... You're in a gang = You're an American You're stuck in the gang = You're stuck in America Vote to steal a car (immoral) = Vote for a anti-abortion, pro-torture president (immoral) Vote to kill the homeless (more immoral) = Vote for pro-abortion, anti-torture president (more immoral) No vote (50/50 chance between steal car or kill homeless) = No vote (50/50 chance between pro-torture or pro-abortion) In both reality and in the analogy, any vote or no vote that is not for the stealing/anti-abortion option, is a vote that either will or might contribute to the killing of innocent life. The only way you can guarantee that you are not culpable for the killing of the innocent life is if you vote for the lesser of two evils. [/quote] Gee, if only there was a third option who was pro life AND against torture.... say... one that rhymes with "Don Saul"? you also forgot to address this part of my response. [quote] you would think these sort of bad analogies would be familiar to someone who has undoubtedly heard "but these kids will have premarital sex anyways, you can either choose 1) condoms or 2) abortion". what answer could you in good conscience, as a catholic, give to that scenario ? neither. [/quote] Edited February 12, 2012 by Jesus_lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG45 Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 [quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1329012339' post='2385655'] Gee, if only there was a third option who was pro life AND against torture.... say... one that rhymes with "Don Saul"? [/quote] You mean that fellow the media ignores or only pays attention to if they want to attack him for their corporate owners? Reminds me of a CNN clip I saw once on Colbert or Jon Stewart where the reporter on the scene is like "'Don Saul' is starting to speak now behind me-" and gets cut off by the anchor "That's nice, we'll come back to you if Sarah Palin shows up." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 [quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1329012339' post='2385655'] Gee, if only there was a third option who was pro life AND against torture.... say... one that rhymes with "Don Saul"? [/quote] Rhymes with Don Saul... Don Juan? Don Quixhote? idgi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesus_lol Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 [quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1329015213' post='2385697'] Rhymes with Don Saul... Don Juan? Don Quixhote? idgi [/quote] That isnt how rhymes work, im sending you back to remedial kindergarden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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