Our Lady Of The Rock Benedictine Monastery

[AccountDeleted]

Vocation forever, thank you so much for your care and concern. I agree that a private message would probably be a better forum for criticism of any community, especially as so much of what we experience is subjective and very personal. That being said, I am sure that your motivation is well intentioned and I accept that you are trying to counsel others to be careful when making their decisions. I welcome any private messages that you wish to send me about this or any other community.

I have been actively discerning religious life for the past five years and have experienced many different expressions of religious life both in community and as a hermit, so I am not being romantic at all in my approach these days. I did suffer a lot from this in the beginning, as anyone who is newly in love will tend to gloss over the practicalities of life. These days I look at any situation with open eyes and a discerning mind and heart.

As for your concerns about OLotR, I have considered the problems that exist there, especially the fact of an aging community (I was told that if I entered, I would be 'the future' of their community, as I will be the youngest one there!) and of the different personalities of the seven women who reside there and determined that I not only would be able to accept whatever the future holds, but also be able to accept each of these women as the very human people that they are - just as I pray that they will all accept me and my weaknesses as well as my strengths.

Perhaps I was unfair in my description of the nun whom I felt did not like me because I did not go on to state that I not only expressed my concerns about this issue and had them resolved, but I also developed a good relationship with her over the second week (she was the one who made the comment about me being their future) but she has also been very helpful to me in arranging to come back and has kept in email touch with me since my return. She has made me feel wanted and welcomed since I made the decision that I wanted to be with them.

It turns out that this nun also has many responsibilities in the community that take her time and attention, and yes, she might not always respond in a way that one would expect or prefer, but I have no doubt that her intentions are always for the good of the community. At one point, I mentioned my concerns about her to another nun because I felt I had a rapport with her, and she both reassured me and helped me to see it from a different perspective. She also told me not to take things too personally, and I know that I have had a tendency to do this in the past. As for being a 'bully' or 'abusive', I can only say that if she appeared this way to you, then you made the right decision in not pursuing a vocation with this community. I had a definite experience of a bullying and abusive Novice Mistress at one Carmel I was in, and was forced to leave because of this person, so I do not believe that one should force themselves to endure such a thing if it causes physical or emotional distress, as this would make it hard for one to grow spiritually as well. I know that St J of the C tells us we can 'put love where there is no love', and if one has this ability, then it is a special grace. I do not. If I am being treated like a victim, I simply get sick physically and emotionally. I don't believe God is trying to torture me in this way as He has not given me the special grace to endure this kind of abuse while still growing spiritually. So this time I told myself I would not be afraid to discuss my concerns about the community BEFORE I entered. This community did not feel threatened in any way by my concerns or questions, and told me that God made me as an individual and the important thing for me was to find a place where I felt that God could grow me as an person, to become the best ‘me’ that I could, as a reflection of His love for me. I was also reassured that should I have any problems once I entered, I could discuss these and have my concerns addressed, which was not the case at the Carmel where I was abused even though I reported my problems to the Prioress.

One of the green lights for me at OLotR is that I did not feel a weight of oppression there. I was able to bring up my concerns and have them addressed, and I was able to establish a good working relationship with the nun that caused me some initial concern. It reminded me of being in a family - knowing that each person is different and has 'quirks' but also accepting them and loving them as gifts from God. Just living in the guest house taught me this as well because all of the guests who came were different, but we all lived together (and ate meals together) as a family. It was lovely.

As for giving away all my stuff - what stuff? I have been in four Carmels over the past five years and have no stuff! I live very frugally and the only reason I came back was to finalize business things like bank accounts (to transfer money to the States for health insurance) and give notice to my landlord and to see family etc. Also, since the monastery wants me to continue my paid income (part-time transcription typing) for awhile, there is no danger of me being without funds or unable to leave or go elsewhere if I need to. They are providing me with Internet access to do so. And they welcome my computer skills because they have so few. I feel very appreciated and welcomed. They are more sensible than any community I have ever been in before!

And the aging problem... I asked them about this and whether the community would close up in the future. They certainly don't want it to, and hope that God intends them to continue, but they also accept that His plans are not our plans. If they did have to close (certainly not in the immediate future), they would simply all go back to Regina Laudis, but they are hoping and praying that this does not happen since they have invested over 30 years into this place and they love it. One of the problems, as I see it, is that young people take a look at them, and then prefer to go to RL because there are so many more nuns there, and younger ones too. That is one of the reasons I chose NOT to go to RL, because I don't want to be an old Novice with all those young ones! I understand the reasoning of the young ones of course, but wish some of them would choose to enter (or stay with) OLotR. They used to send their Novices to RL for formation for two years, after the first year of postulancy at OLotR, but then they never wanted to come back! I am hoping that in future, perhaps some women in their 30s or 40s will enter and stay - that would add such possibilities to the community. As it is, we have a very few people doing a lot of work. Thank God for the volunteers and Interns!

So, while I do appreciate your personal point of view about OLofR, I have to disagree with your assessment of them from my own perspective. Out of all the communities I have visited, lived with or entered, this is the first one where I truly felt a sense of peace and contentment. I have no doubt there will be problems and adjustments to make – this is true whenever one lives with others – but their common sense attitude and approach to religious life speaks to me on a very deep level. I feel like they are my ‘soul sisters’. I have only been back home since yesterday, but my enthusiasm and energy remain constant, and I am eagerly looking forward to returning to my small country town (I am in Melbourne with my sister right now) to get things organized and ready to go back.

[marigold]

Wow, nunsense. Thanks for taking the time to write all that out as a response to vocation forever. Balanced and nuanced and compassionate. If this is the side of you that OLotR is bringing out, then I say thanks be to God

[Mary's Margaret]

Nunsense: It certainly sounds like home. God bless you for your perseverence and open heart.

[Immanuel]

Nunsense: As the future of their community and with all of your tech/computer know-how, I'm hoping that eventually one of your responsibilities will be the blog Then all of us here can still benefit from your growing wisdom of Benedictine spirituality.
I'm so happy that you have found your home

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='Immanuel' timestamp='1328992720' post='2385536']
Nunsense: As the future of their community and with all of your tech/computer know-how, I'm hoping that eventually one of your responsibilities will be the blog Then all of us here can still benefit from your growing wisdom of Benedictine spirituality.
I'm so happy that you have found your home
[/quote]

As a baby in Benedictine spirituality, I wouldn't presume to think I had anything to offer there, but my fingers have been itching to get to their blog, just to keep it updated more often! -- It might be awhile before I get entrusted with something like that, but maybe someday?

I would also like to see some updated photos (one of the nuns in a white veil has long since changed to black now) and the website has been the same forever and a day - and even though it is lovely - it needs some energy put into it again.

Baby steps though... one day at a time. I want to be like my baby grandson - it was a joy to watch him running and staggering around the room on his cute little baby legs, falling down and laughing a lot, completely open and trusting.

[Totally Franciscan]

Nunsense, I am so very grateful to God that you have found a home at OLTR. I have put you on my prayer list that God give you the grace and perseverence to fulfill His Divine Will for you. I have a question. I notice that you mention that you had been in four previous communities. I have been in two and have always wondered if a prospective community would wonder about why those communities did not work out for you. Of course, this community is accepting you with loving arms, but I wonder if you had encountered this and how you handled it for my own future reference. I have a grandson too, and I wonder how you will handle not being around him. I have a feeling my daughter will be quite upset if I decide and am accepted to enter a cloister. I have not yet crossed that bridge, but any help would be grealy appreciated. God bless!

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='Totally Franciscan' timestamp='1328995030' post='2385550']
Nunsense, I am so very grateful to God that you have found a home at OLTR. I have put you on my prayer list that God give you the grace and perseverence to fulfill His Divine Will for you. I have a question. I notice that you mention that you had been in four previous communities. I have been in two and have always wondered if a prospective community would wonder about why those communities did not work out for you. Of course, this community is accepting you with loving arms, but I wonder if you had encountered this and how you handled it for my own future reference. I have a grandson too, and I wonder how you will handle not being around him. I have a feeling my daughter will be quite upset if I decide and am accepted to enter a cloister. I have not yet crossed that bridge, but any help would be grealy appreciated. God bless!
[/quote]

Excellent questions TF. I can answer your second question first because it is easier for me. My situation with my daughter and grandson is a pretty unique one so I don't have the same problems that you will no doubt have if you enter a cloister. You probably have a close relationship with your daughter and she will want you to be involved with her life and this is going to be a difficulty for both you and her (that you can overcome with God's help). My daughter was a very abused child and I adopted her when she was seven years old after she had spent many traumatic years in the foster care system. She suffers from RAD (reactive attachment disorder), so our relationship has been difficult from the start and she often reminded me that I was 'not her real mother'. When she turned 18, she left home and didn't really want any more of a relationship with me. The rejection hurt very much but I knew I had to give her time and space to work things out for herself. The fact that she agreed to meet with me this time after nearly five years, and to let me meet my grandson was wonderful. And the very fact that she actually considers him to be my grandson means that she also thinks of me as her mother now. But our relationship is still fragile. She was able to express to me that since having her own baby, she has been able to get angry at her biological mother for abandoning and rejecting her and her birth family for the things they did to her (she used to romanticise them), and this also helped her to appreciate the things that I did for her in the 11 years we were together. She thanked me and said that she hopes the past is the past and that we can start to build a new relationship now. But it will take time and I don't want to rush her. So entering for me isn't as hard on her or me as it would be on you and your daughter. Over time my daughter will no doubt come to visit me with her husband and child and we will learn to be a family - but from a distance. You and your daughter already have a strong emotional bond, so it will be hard for the initial separation, but perhaps easier in some ways, as you already know that you will always love each other.

As for the question about having entered previous communities, I guess the response to this would depend on the reaction of the community you are hoping to enter now. When I mentioned to one of my previous spiritual directors that I was worried about my age and my previous attempts at religious life, he told me that as long as I still felt the call, I should pursue it, but I should be honest about my prior attempts. Being honest however, does not mean being negative. I tried to look at each experience and see what I had learned about myself and to meditate on why it hadn't worked for either me or the community. On three occasions I left, and on one occasion I was asked to leave by the Prioress. I had to determine if the same conditions still existed that had caused problems in these other communities and if so, what could I do about it?

Once I felt comfortable in myself about the answers to these questions, I knew that I would be able to speak about these attempts with a new community. In some ways, I knew I needed to change, but sometimes I felt the fault was with the previous community and not with myself, so I had to find a way to express this without appearing too critical or judgmental of them. I also wanted to see it from the point of view of each community to see if there was anything I could have done differently or if the result would have been the same no matter what I had done. I think that spending eight months in the bush as a hermit, living alone with God, gave me plenty of time to reflect on all of these issues, and to heal from the wounds that I had received either through my own actions or the actions of others. It was kind of like going into a cocoon, and then emerging with a new perspective. During this time, I also developed a complete dependence upon God alone - and perhaps came to truly understand St Teresa's statement that 'God alone suffices'. I also think my appoach to discernment changed during this time because even though I still felt called to religious life, I knew that if God willed it, then it would happen, and if He didn't, then I didn't want it either.

I think that may be one of the reasons why I had the 'melt down' at the end of the first week at OLotR. I had felt this call so strongly and yet it seemed nothing was happening, so I was angry at God for 'calling' me but not appearing to 'want' me. I do remember shouting at Him to take away the call if He wasn't going to do anything about fulfilling it! (Yes, I know, I am very cheeky. But He and I made up later ).

So my advice is to do a lot of thinking and analysing about your prior experiences in religious life until you can look at them honestly and positively (even though there may have been negative experiences as well). Once you can explain these things to yourself, then you will be able to explain them to others as well.

And don't forget that the community will no doubt have already had a lot of experience with women who have already tried religious life elsewhere, and will have their own understanding of why these things happen. One of the last postulants at OLotR had been a Carmelite for many years prior to trying with them. At the end of a year, they all found that she was not able to let go of her Carmelite spirituality enough to embrace the Benedictine charism so she left them. Perhaps she tried again at another Carmel, or perhaps she decided not to pursue religious life anymore, I don't know, but they gave her the opportunity to try for a year and she learned some things about herself that will no doubt help her with her future choices. That is what the postulancy is all about anyway. Sometimes it might take longer for one person to discern than another but God knows we are only human and even if the spirit is willing, the flesh is often weak. As long as we keep turning back to God every time we fall, then we know we are safe - He will pick us up, dust us off and put us on our feet again. So we can't fail, as long as we keep trying, and rely on Him for our strength.

I wish you all the best in your discernment process, wherever it leads you. Remember always that you are loved more than you can possibly imagine. Was it St Catherine or St Therese who said that He doesn't want our achievements, just our effort? I believe this is true. As a parent myself, I appreciate so much the effort that my daughter is making to come closer to me. Isn't God so much more loving than we are? I can't imagine that anyone who truly loved Him, could ever be a disappointment to Him.

Edited February 12, 2012 by nunsense

[MarysLittleFlower]

Thanks for the update Nunsense!! I really enjoyed reading about your experience.. but the whole time I kept wondering, what would happen next! lol I hope that this is the community for you. Prayers

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='MarysLittleFlower' timestamp='1329010122' post='2385635']
...
I hope that this is the community for you. Prayers
[/quote]

For God, nothing is impossible!

[Totally Franciscan]

Nunsense, I can't tell you how much your post has helped me. In fact, I have printed it out to read over and over again to let it all sink in and work on my answers as you worked on yours. Thank you so much for being so open about your experiences and how you came to terms with them. I keep thinking that God has been so good to you, especially now that your daughter is appreciating what you have done for her, and has touched your soul in marvelous ways to help us here on Phatmass.

Regarding my previous communities, one particular quote of yours, "being honest does not mean being negative", or not being "critical or judgmental" really struck me. My previous community was up to some really bad stuff, and I have never told anyone about it, not even my family. I often wondered how I would relate the reason for my leaving that community to a prospective community. Regarding my first community, I have spent many a year saying "if only I had stayed", or "if only my postulant mistress had told me she thought I had a vocation" to the point of wondering if I was a disappointment to Him for not persevering. Your last sentence of your post touched my heart, "I can't imagine anyone who truly loved Him could be a disappointment to Him." Like you, I have also had THAT conversation with God, "Why do you give me this desire to be a religious, yet not make it possible for me to fulfill it?" It seems we have a lot in common (I am a medical transcriptionist. Is that your field?), so your post has really helped me, and I thank you so much for sharing so openly with me.

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='Totally Franciscan' timestamp='1329083939' post='2386047']
Nunsense, I can't tell you how much your post has helped me. In fact, I have printed it out to read over and over again to let it all sink in and work on my answers as you worked on yours. Thank you so much for being so open about your experiences and how you came to terms with them. I keep thinking that God has been so good to you, especially now that your daughter is appreciating what you have done for her, and has touched your soul in marvelous ways to help us here on Phatmass.

Regarding my previous communities, one particular quote of yours, "being honest does not mean being negative", or not being "critical or judgmental" really struck me. My previous community was up to some really bad stuff, and I have never told anyone about it, not even my family. I often wondered how I would relate the reason for my leaving that community to a prospective community. Regarding my first community, I have spent many a year saying "if only I had stayed", or "if only my postulant mistress had told me she thought I had a vocation" to the point of wondering if I was a disappointment to Him for not persevering. Your last sentence of your post touched my heart, "I can't imagine anyone who truly loved Him could be a disappointment to Him." Like you, I have also had THAT conversation with God, "Why do you give me this desire to be a religious, yet not make it possible for me to fulfill it?" It seems we have a lot in common (I am a medical transcriptionist. Is that your field?), so your post has really helped me, and I thank you so much for sharing so openly with me.
[/quote]

TF - the important thing is to move on from whatever happened to you in the past. You can't change it but you can use the experience to help you discern what to do next. If you have ever had negative experiences at a job, you must know how to let them go and move on, right? And when you went to the next job interview, you had to explain why that job didn't work out - without being too critical of your previous employer (because that would make you look bad too). The funny thing is that I didn't really have to explain too much to the nuns at OLofR about my previous experiences at all. They were a little curious about life as a Carmelite and asked me a couple of questions, but on the whole they just accepted that God obviously hadn't wanted me to stay at those places. They hoped that I would be happy with them, but they didn't feel as if they had to 'sell' the place and I could see that whatever my ultimate decision, they would be supportive of it. Sometimes we worry about how others will react because we are projecting our own insecurities. If we can come to terms with what has happened, then others will be able to accept it as well. The hard thing for someone who has been in previous communities is dealing with that feeling of failure that accompanies leaving. But every experience that happens to us can be a source of growth and strength.

And maybe God lets us 'hang out there' sometimes just to show us how much we really do want Him. The longing can become unbearable and that feeling of needing a little help from Him increases our dependence on Him. Even the Apostles got a little upset when Jesus appeared to be ignoring their danger during the storm at sea. He slept on quite peacefully while they all freaked out! But it wasn't until they woke Him up and got his attention that they could rest easy again. Sure, He rebuked them for their lack of faith, but He still saved them, and He showed them that whatever happens, He could make things okay again.

Job sort of went through a similar thing. As long as he was coping with his troubles, God left him alone, but as soon as Job couldn't take it anymore and started yelling at God, he got some attention. Once again, he was rebuked - this time for daring to question God's motives, but Job was fine with that - he said sorry and then God fixed things up for him. Sometimes the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Didn't Jesus tell us about the widow who demanded justice so often that the judge gave it to her just to shut her up? He had to have a reason for telling that story! Babies cry to get attention. How could God resist an appeal from the heart?? hmmm? Just never forget how much He loves us.

And for your last question - no, I don't do medical transcription work, I do interviews by insurance investigators of people who file claims. The hardest part is dealing with all the different accents!

[Totally Franciscan]

Nunsense, God has given you the gift of His wisdom, and I am so very grateful. Everything you have said has touched my heart and given me hope to move forward. I think God has used you to speak to m heart. Isn't God good!

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='Totally Franciscan' timestamp='1329259206' post='2387101']
Nunsense, God has given you the gift of His wisdom, and I am so very grateful. Everything you have said has touched my heart and given me hope to move forward. I think God has used you to speak to m heart. Isn't God good!
[/quote]

Yes, God is good. The Holy Spirit uses us to help each other in ways we can't imagine. I had similar experiences at the monastery, with others being of immense help to me, so I'm glad that some of it has been able to be passed on to you.

I am not online as much as I used to be, simply because I have to earn a lot of money in a short space of time, so that means lots more typing work. I don't get sent a new file until I have finished the one I am working on, so now I try to get them turned around as soon as possible. It isn't as if I have a lot of other things to do right now anyway, so it is working out fine. Once I am in the monastery, I will be able to slow down a little with the amount of work I accept. I have managed to work out some bank details already (for transferring money), but the airfare is the next big expense and I can't do that quite yet. I know that all is in his hands however, so I am just putting in my own effort while relying on Him to make it all come together.

I do like to stop by and read some of the posts on the phorums though, and I am encouraged by how well everyone seems to be doing. 2012 looks like a good year for many people. So those of us doing well need to pray for those who are still having problems. God never leaves any of us.

[AccountDeleted]

Tonight I have been writing to one of my old Carmelite Prioresses, offering her my 3-volume set of the UK Divine Office, since I will be using a Latin breviary at OLotR and not the English one. I figured they could give it to a new entrant and not have to buy another one (they cost around $200 for a set). She and I email a lot, and I am sure their prayers have helped me along my journey. I have had my breviary set for five years, and it has kept me sane reciting it on my own between convents. It is a strange feeling to be letting it go, but I wanted it to go somewhere that it would get some use

I also heard from OLotR about the celebration for the Prioress' Golden Jubilee, which was on St Scholastica's feast day. It sounds as if everything went well. Mother Prioress is going to Regina Laudis in April to celebrate it again with the Abbess there, as they both have the same Jubilee day but the Abbess of RL wanted to have hers when the weather gets better there so all the guests who want to attend can do so. I am just sorry I had to miss it.

Hearing from OLotR made me miss them even more. I am content and happy and taking each day as it comes (a lot of cleaning and packing right now in between work) but my heart is already back there. *sigh* I think once I book the airfare, I will actually feel that it is all going to happen, but that won't be for another week at least (waiting for money to come into the bank).

Well, tomorrow is Ash Wednesday here, with Mass at 8.30am, and I have decided that I am not going to be on phatmass during Lent except for Sundays, which are feast days. Will update more a week from Sunday (don't expect much to happen in the next few days). Time to go pray

[HopefulBride]

Nunsense,

Happy Ash Wednesday! (early I know but I'm sure by the time I get to a computer again it will be tomorrow where you are) I am really encouraged by you. I have followed your story over the past couple of years and more than anything it is your desire to be one with the Lord and to follow Him without restraint that I find wonderful. You are truly one after His heart. I pray that as you approach your entrance day, the Holy Spirit continues to set your heart on fire for Christ.

Keep me in your prayers!