What The Hell Is The Matter With The U.s.c.c.b. ?

[qfnol31]

Ed, look into the history of Cardinal Wuerl in the Archdiocese of Washington. I think you'll see a very different history than the one you're presenting.

[Ed Normile]

[quote name='qfnol31' timestamp='1328842350' post='2384625']
Ed, look into the history of Cardinal Wuerl in the Archdiocese of Washington. I think you'll see a very different history than the one you're presenting.
[/quote]

qfnol31, I am certain there have been certain Bishops or Cardinals who were aware of this from the very beginning, what I was addressing was last weeks announcement from the U.S.C.C.B. to pray for this issue. Its a little last minute, I will have to look up this Cardinal, I assume your premise is that he came out against this either before the healthcare bill was passed or maybe at the time of its signing, my point was and is that this should have been addressed by the U.S.C.C.B. before it was ever enacted, not after. Sure a coordinated protest of catholics and other faiths could have an impact on this mandate, but this is starting a tad too late, it would have been far easier to stop this before it was signed into law. At this point, even under a heavy united secular protest would still have to go before the courts to be struck down. I know you have seen where 21 states have declared this healthcare plan unconstitutional, yet local judges have struck this down, it happened at least four times in virginia alone. these judges were appointed by liberals, most the supreme court is liberal appointed, most the conservative ones were compromises appointed to appease the liberals and vote more liberal on average.

ed

[qfnol31]

Some links to consider. Please note their dates:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/story/2011-09-23/gay-marriage-bishop/50528104/1
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/22/catholic-fight-birth-control-insurance-rule_n_974718.html
http://swampland.time.com/2011/10/07/why-catholic-bishops-are-targeting-obama-on-religious-freedom/ (Not a flattering read of the USCCB unfortunately, but it still goes to prove the point that these guys have been active)

I would argue that it would have been imprudent to make the sort of stand that they did last month before the White House gave its final verdict on the HHS matter. If the bishops had spoken too soon in this manner, they would have risked alienating the White House before they had the chance to negotiate. As it stands now, perhaps it doesn't really matter all that much.

What has happened, though, is President Obama is either naive or he has completely deceived Americans. In either case, the bishops gave him the benefit of the doubt and he turned on them, effectively turning on the American people in the process. The blame does not rest with the bishops, but with the President himself.

[Papist]

Are the USCCB fighting the good fight? YES

Are the USCCB fighting the good fight to all's satisfaction? NO

Please pray for our bishops everyday. Spread the word.

[thessalonian]

[quote name='Ed Normile' timestamp='1328840328' post='2384607']
Wow, !!!, you are not only [u]rude[/u] but uniformed, the Bishops just recently addressed this to the church, as in, the faithful who embody the church, the parishioners, the people in the pews. This has been part of the healthcare bill since its inception, not just since last year. It was written into the plan at its inception, its in Romney's plan too and as I wrote Romney's advisors participated in writing Obama's plan, shewww.! This was signed into law on March 23, 2010, it came to light back in January 2011 when the newly Republican controlled House voted 245-189 to repeal, which was mostly a symbolic act as both the Senate and the office of President was Democrat controlled, that my friends is when religious orgs started to get involved. Federal law exempts Churches?, I am talking about secular institutions such as catholic hospitals and schools, and other religious institutions such as those, where did you come up with churches had to provide these services, its any institution that falls under the health care program that receives federal monies and implements healthcare.

You should not insult Bishops that way, I am a sinner not nearly a Bishop.

ed
[/quote]

I'm rude? Why don't you look in the mirror sonny. Just because you were in a vacuum and just heard about this last Sunday doesn't mean everyone is. I'm through dealing with an ignoramous.

[Winchester]

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hf_XpLOYfog[/media]

[Anomaly]

[quote name='Ed Normile' timestamp='1328847904' post='2384701']
qfnol31, I am certain there have been certain Bishops or Cardinals who were aware of this from the very beginning, what I was addressing was last weeks announcement from the U.S.C.C.B. to pray for this issue. Its a little last minute, I will have to look up this Cardinal, I assume your premise is that he came out against this either before the healthcare bill was passed or maybe at the time of its signing, my point was and is that this should have been addressed by the U.S.C.C.B. before it was ever enacted, not after. Sure a coordinated protest of catholics and other faiths could have an impact on this mandate, but this is starting a tad too late, it would have been far easier to stop this before it was signed into law. At this point, even under a heavy united secular protest would still have to go before the courts to be struck down. I know you have seen where 21 states have declared this healthcare plan unconstitutional, yet local judges have struck this down, it happened at least four times in virginia alone. these judges were appointed by liberals, most the supreme court is liberal appointed, most the conservative ones were compromises appointed to appease the liberals and vote more liberal on average.

ed
[/quote]ed,
In all fairness, the Church doesn't really give black/white answers on just about anything. The USCCB has to recognize Pope B saying that health care is a natural right being inserted in the whole Obamacare fiasco. That's why 54% of Caths voted for Obama without a hiccup. The Church does make all sorts of ambiguous "moral statements", but they rarely objectively consider the practical ramifications. It would be utopia to have free health care for everyone with no strings attached. The stumbling blocks are who's going to pay for it, how is it going to be managed, to what extent are people allowed free will to decide how much or little care they want... The practical problems are almost infinite.

You should be grateful that the USCCB have actually finally taken a firm stance on something and at least there is some reaction with the current politcal administration. But you have to recognize that the Cath Church was happy to see socialized medicine coming down the pike and cared little at the time about likely negative consequences.

[kamiller42]

The USCCB did approve of Obamacare after Obama issued the executive order restricting federal funds from abortions. Of course, conservatives knew the USCCB was being snookered, but they decided to trust the one with the forked tongue.

For my Catholic friends who support Obama...

[img]http://www.jillstanek.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/IMG_0162.gif[/img]

[thessalonian]

Kamiller42
You are going to have to back up your statement that the USCCB approved obomacare after the rescinsion. I don't recall any such approval statement by the Bishops. All the rescinsion did was to get a few in congress to turn the tide and get it through. Looking at the USCCB website it looks like they were not fooled by the rescinsion.

[url="http://old.usccb.org/healthcare/03-25-10Memo-re-Executive-Order-Final.pdf"]http://old.usccb.org...Order-Final.pdf[/url]

Provide your statement from the USCCB that shows they approved obamacare.

Edited February 14, 2012 by thessalonian

[kamiller42]

[quote]WASHINGTON, May 20 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- Congress should support a bipartisan bill that will remedy the abortion and conscience flaws in the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PPACA), according to the Chairman of the U.S. bishops' Committee on Pro-Life Activities. In a May 20 letter to Congress, Cardinal Daniel DiNardo of Galveston-Houston said [b]PPACA was an important step toward ensuring access to health coverage for all Americans[/b] but was "profoundly flawed in its treatment of abortion, conscience rights, and fairness to immigrants." He urged members to support H.R. 5111, sponsored by Reps. Joseph Pitts (R-PA) and Dan Lipinski (D-IL) with 91 other House members, and added, "Efforts to ensure that our health care system truly serves the life, health and conscience of all will be a legislative goal of the Catholic bishops in the months to come
[url="http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/bishops-urge-congress-to-support-bill-to-remedy-abortion-conscience-flaws-in-health-care-reform-law-94495144.html"][u]Source[/u][/url]
[/quote]
They liked the bill minus the pro-death and lack of conscientious objection stuff.

You can read the actual letter at the source. I feel sorry for the cardinal and bishops for getting snookered. Not surprising given the administration and party.

Edited February 16, 2012 by kamiller42

[kamiller42]

Some more relevant funnies...

[img]http://www.jillstanek.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/105683_600.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.jillstanek.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/IMG_0163.gif[/img]

[img]http://www.investors.com/image/TOONclr0206.jpg[/img]

Edited February 16, 2012 by kamiller42

[XIX]

[quote name='kamiller42' timestamp='1329355701' post='2387775']
They liked the bill minus the pro-death and lack of conscientious objection stuff.
[/quote]
So in other words, they didn't like the bill. Gotcha.

[kamiller42]

[quote name='XIX' timestamp='1329356469' post='2387781']
So in other words, they didn't like the bill. Gotcha.
[/quote]
When you give license to the government to run health care, how can you not see it will lead government mandating contraception and other obscenities? Even if all the bishops' concerns were addressed, the Act is poison.

[img]http://assets.gearlive.com/filmcrunch/blogimages/snow-white-apple.jpg[/img]

[Christa]

They are bunch of mostly European-American single, and supposedly celibate men who do not understand that much of what ails women, is inside their rather complex reproductive systems. They would rather nobody have insurance, than all of us having insurance. And, that my fellow Catholics is a SIN.

[truthlvr]

I found this article to be enlightening about preaching from theh pulpit. I believe that the Church has an obligation to enlighten the people by comparing how candidates stand on issues that are important to the Church. Then it would be up to the members to decide what to do with that information when they go to the polls. Check out - [url="http://www.theblaze.com/stories/pastors-unite-against-irs-tax-code-restrictions-on-political-speech-in-the-pulpit/"]http://www.theblaze.com/stories/pastors-unite-against-irs-tax-code-restrictions-on-political-speech-in-the-pulpit/[/url]