Voting Third Party?

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='eagle_eye222001' timestamp='1328480888' post='2381762']
Don't remember what her foreign policy was. Likely would have been better than Obama's.

In any case, the McCain campaign turned her into a parroting idiot. She's too damaged to run again. She was best for rallying support for TEA party candidates. Although her recent support for Newt has made me lost the remaining support I had for her. She's sold what she had left.
[/quote]

Tough to be worse than Obama's, given how many people he's been killing.

[Amppax]

[img]http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/245/082/c2e.jpg[/img]

[elizabeth09]

[quote name='eagle_eye222001' timestamp='1328479175' post='2381702']
You have to vote. Even if it is for someone who has withdrawn from the race, technically, they could still win. Seeing a large third-party bloc sends a strong message to the two big candidates that their views are off-step with America. Not voting can still send message, but it is not as strong. Think what would happen if Ron Paul got 10% of the vote! That may mean Obama wins, but that sends a STRONG message to the GOP establishment to stop running "John McCains."


This may be the first time I vote third-party. Assuming Romney wins the nomination, the only thing I trust him to do is to undo the HSS mandate. Other than that, he is Obama-Lite. He will do the same things as Obama, just over a longer period of time. If anything, I'm worried he will ruin the GOP's chance to run a good candidate in 2016. If Romney wins, that means he runs again in 2016. That means our chance to get a real good candidate in the presidency will likely be delayed by two election cycles.

Newt....too much baggage. I wish I could trust him, but I logistically can't. Plus he's another old white guy. I hate to stereotype, but appearances mean a lot. We need a new young energetic person like Rick Santorum, Marcio Rubio, or someone similar with solid values, who can take a hard swing at the growing socialism of America. Another old white guy just sends the wrong message to America.

Rick Santorum or Ron Paul! No more votes for John McCain and his clones! [b]It is time for the NEXT GENERATION to step up and vote for who they REALLY want, and not settle for a loser candidate.[/b]


It is time to take some damage, so in 20-30 years, we have a much better America. Settling for losers will only delay a better America. It is time to vote for people who may not win, but reflect your values much better.
[/quote]

I must agree. If we want a better America for our children, then today`s children have it.

[qfnol31]

Is there much hope for a third party candidate without a strong third party to back him up? As long as people vote third party, the two main parties are less willing to gather those votes unless the person has a good chance of winning. I realize the reasons for voting third party, but I don't think it actually causes the party to change much. Here are my reasons why:

Take the Republican Party as an example. The Republican Party cannot choose a more extreme candidate over a more compromising one because it risks losing moderate independent voters. Thus the candidate most likely will be a compromise conservative or a more moderate person. If he's a compromise, then the party will risk losing both independent voters and those who refuse to compromise or settle. However, the number of independent voters is greater so it will try to keep them more. In doing so the more conservative voters will vote third party, which will in turn validate the party's choice to go with the more moderate person because then he has the best chance to get into the White House. Thus the next election the party will remember that it has little chance with people who are less willing to compromise and will actually move farther away from such people.

I read presidential polls every day so I see this happen, and in some ways it has been happening for years. Ron Paul has accomplished more for this cause by working within the confines of the Republican Party the last couple elections, as shown by his better polling. Until there is a strong, well-organized third party, I feel that this is a lost cause.

Those are my two cents on this. I think that unless you want to start a third party and have the resources to do so, you are actually better off in the long run by patiently changing a party from within. Loyalty is more likely to be rewarded over a long period than going somewhere else. The last several elections since 1992 have demonstrated this.

[Winchester]

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HAUzVJPM2g[/media]

[Norseman82]

[quote name='eagle_eye222001' timestamp='1328480280' post='2381740']
I agree. He very likely won't get it. But that isn't stopping me from seriously considering to vote for him. I did vote for McCain back in 08' (because Palin was on the ticket.....but then she even sold out some of her values) but was secretly glad he lost because I figured that would make our candidates better this time around.....

Wait.....that didn't work.


If I end up voting for Ron Paul as third party or write-in Rick Santorum because the GOP nomination is too damaged and untrustworthy, and Obama wins by one vote, I'll sleep with a clean conscience.
[/quote]

Even if your vote is the vote that decides whether we will reverse the Obama-Sebellius machine's war on religious freedom?

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Norseman82' timestamp='1328495451' post='2381897']
Even if your vote is the vote that decides whether we will reverse the Obama-Sebellius machine's war on religious freedom?
[/quote]

Out of curiosity, are you familiar with the probability of your vote actually making a difference?

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1328495515' post='2381898']
Out of curiosity, are you familiar with the probability of your vote actually making a difference?
[/quote]

(Let's just say you'll be able to make a lot greater difference (exponentially so) by buying lottery tickets.)

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1328495515' post='2381898']
Out of curiosity, are you familiar with the probability of your vote actually making a difference?
[/quote]
[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1328495920' post='2381901']
(Let's just say you'll be able to make a lot greater difference (exponentially so) by buying lottery tickets.)
[/quote]

Santorum won the Iowa caucus by 8 votes.

The margin nationwide in the 1960 Kennedy-Nixon contest was about 1 vote per precinct. Recounts and absentee ballots reversed the results in two states - Hawaii flipped from Nixon to Kennedy, and California flipped from Kennedy to Nixon.

The official margin for Bush over Gore in Florida in 2000 was about 571 votes, which is far less than one vote per precinct.

In the 2010 Illinois GOP primary for governor, Bill Brady topped Kirk Dillard by about 193 votes (about 1/50th vote per precinct), and he ended up losing to governor Pat Quinn by about 20,000 votes (about 2 votes per precinct).

In his first election to the US Senate from Texas, Lyndon Johnson won the Democratic primary by 87 votes.

In last years's Chicago city council runoff elections, one aldermanic seat was decided by 28 votes out of 12,000 votes cast (about 1/3 vote per precinct).

Don't ever say that your vote does not matter!

[eagle_eye222001]

[quote name='Norseman82' timestamp='1328495451' post='2381897']
Even if your vote is the vote that decides whether we will reverse the Obama-Sebellius machine's war on religious freedom?
[/quote]

Yes.

That is a tiny risk I am taking. I would rather give a candle to a party that much more accurately expresses my values, than to sell out to a party who will end the religious war, but will continue other things "Obama-style-lite." Romney may end the HSS mandate, but I really don't believe he will be of help to any other major issue. He is big government like Obama...he is pro-life with exceptions which means he will continue to fund PP. As for marriage...Romney is implicitly pro-gay marriage. He lacks core principles and his values sift with the political wind. If Romney has good values, it is because America will have to put a torch to him to stand by them.


Since I believe I can only count on Romney to end the HSS mandate, I will put my prayers to the Supreme Court which recently went 9-0 in favor of religious freedoms. To vote for Romney only because of the HSS mandate I believe is a mistake since he will be just like Obama in other areas.

Obama can sound like a capitalist in some speeches, but his ideology is socialism and all his actions point towards that. I would give Obama some credit for acting consistent with his ideology. Romney acted like Obama, now he comes to the right saying he's changed. Maybe he has. But where is the logical proof? Romney is a political opportunist for the Mormon church. You research Latter-Day Saints, and you will find that they have a systematic machine of churning out people in certain positions for political clout. Romney has been built by the Mormon church to win the presidency. To win the presidency means you have to be popular. Romney will sift with the political wind. And that is why I will not vote for him...even at the cost of pro-longing the war with the Catholic Church.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Norseman82' timestamp='1328497816' post='2381914']
Santorum won the Iowa caucus by 8 votes.

The margin nationwide in the 1960 Kennedy-Nixon contest was about 1 vote per precinct. Recounts and absentee ballots reversed the results in two states - Hawaii flipped from Nixon to Kennedy, and California flipped from Kennedy to Nixon.

The official margin for Bush over Gore in Florida in 2000 was about 571 votes, which is far less than one vote per precinct.

In the 2010 Illinois GOP primary for governor, Bill Brady topped Kirk Dillard by about 193 votes (about 1/50th vote per precinct), and he ended up losing to governor Pat Quinn by about 20,000 votes (about 2 votes per precinct).

In his first election to the US Senate from Texas, Lyndon Johnson won the Democratic primary by 87 votes.

In last years's Chicago city council runoff elections, one aldermanic seat was decided by 28 votes out of 12,000 votes cast (about 1/3 vote per precinct).

Don't ever say that your vote does not matter!
[/quote]

If I'm not mistaken, you have a better chance of winning a major lottery twice than for your vote to decide an election. There's a far, far greater chance you die on the way to the polling station.

[Nihil Obstat]

This article sums up my thoughts pretty well, I think.



[url="http://lewrockwell.com/peters-e/peters-e102.html"][b] [font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Smashing the Illusion of Consent… Peacefully[/font][/b][/url]

[center][font=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][size=3][b][font=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][size=3][b][font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]by [email="epeters952@yahoo.com"]Eric Peters[/email]
[i][url="http://ericpetersautos.com/"]EricPetersAutos.com[/url][/i][/font][/b][/size][/font][/b][/size][/font][/center]
[center][font=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][size=3][font=Times New Roman, Times, serif][font=Times New Roman, Times, serif][size=3][i]Recently by Eric Peters: [/i][/size][/font][url="http://www.lewrockwell.com/peters-e/peters-e101.html"][font=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][size=3][font=Times New Roman, Times, serif][font=Times New Roman, Times, serif][size=3][i]Your Car Passed… But That Doesn’t Necessarily Mean It’s Safe To Drive[/i][/size][/font][/font][/size][/font][/url][/font][/size][/font][/center]
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[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif][size=3]Refusing to fly again until TSA Submission Training is done away with – and not buying cars equipped with Big Brother technology – that’s a good start on the path back to liberty. But if we really want to pick up the pace – and get back to what this country once was, a very long time ago, there’s a play we could make about a year from now that would fundamentally change everything:[/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif][size=3][i]Don’t play their game.[/i][/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif][size=3]Don’t [i]vote[/i].[/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif][size=3]Not until, at least, voting isn’t a con – as it is currently and has been for decades.[/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif][size=3]No, worse than a con.[/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif][size=3]Voting in the context of our current system is the mechanism by which we [i]enslave[/i] ourselves – and this is key –[i]without being conscious of our enslavement.[/i][/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif][size=3]It is called the illusion of consent.[/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif][size=3]We – most of us, at any rate – believe that because we are offered the choice between Tweedledee and Tweedledum that the oppression subsequently visited upon us by the state and its agents has been done with our consent, since after all, we got to vote on it first.[/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif][size=3]It is an absurd proposition when you deconstruct it – as well as when examined in the light of morality. On a purely mechanical level, it’s ridiculous to believe that you or I or any individual has any meaningful say in what is done to us under color of law, on the basis of The Vote. Have you ever written your congresscretin? The form letters one receives in reply, auto-penned signature and all, reveal the weight given your mighty vote… .[/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif][size=3]Trust me. Every vote does [i]not[/i] matter – or even [i]count[/i].[/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif][size=3]You, and I and everyone else – we’ve all been rendered moot by diffusion. We are as individually unimportant to the system as a worker bee in a hive.[/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif][size=3]But what really matters is the fundamental [i]immorality[/i] of The Vote. Certain things should simply not be on the table. Human rights are not negotiable, but of course, most people no longer have any conception of human rights – or have had their conceptions warped into their opposite. That is, they believe in the right to violate other people’s rights via The Vote. It is ok to steal from your neighbor, for instance, provided it has been duly voted on first. To tell a man with whom he may associate, or buy from and sell to. And so forth.[/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif][size=3]But, I digress.[/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif][size=3]The sickness this country suffers from is the false idea that the government operates with the consent of the governed. I don’t know about you, but no agent of the government ever asked whether I consent to [i]anything[/i]that has been done to me, or done in my name. If they want my money, they just take my money. My rights – and yours – have been regulated, delimited, conditioned and outright taken away against my expressly stated wishes – and yours too, probably. But we play along, because we have The Vote and because the system has conned us into accepting this absurd notion that it operates with our consent.[/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif][size=3]Well, what if we [i]withdrew[/i] that consent?[/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif][size=3]What if enough of us simply declined to vote for Tweedledee or Tweedledum?[/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif][size=3]We are very tellingly encouraged – [i]by both wings of the duopoly that runs this country[/i] – to vote. They – Demopublicans and Republicrats alike – urge us via PSAs every election cycle that “It doesn’t matter who you vote for – so long as you vote.”[/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif][size=3]Indeed.[/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif][size=3]Is it not interesting that both wings should be so mutually in agreement on this point?[/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif][size=3]What they want above all is our affirmation of the duopoly’s rule over us, which we freely give them each and every election cycle – thus perpetuating the con.[/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif][size=3]But we could give the duopoly a [i]Wizard of Oz[/i] moment if enough of us just stayed home on election day – especially election day 2012.[/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif][size=3]Historically, only about half of all eligible voters ever vote in a presidential election anyhow – which means (roughly) about 26-30 percent of the actually-voting 50-ish percent. So, the little known fact of the matter is that [i]El Jefe[/i] is (s)elected by, at most, about a quarter of all eligible voters.[/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif][size=3]We don’t even have “majority rule”![/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif][size=3]Now, a goodly portion of the people who do vote are tax-feeders or parasites of one sort or another because, obviously, they have the most at stake. They will continue to participate for the same reason that stray cats will continue to show up when someone puts food out for them. But if, by not voting, the dwindling minority of non-parasites who have voted in the past – often with great enthusiasm in a misguided because within-the-system effort to hold the line (that is, to hold onto whatever remains of their rights and liberties) decided not to play anymore… if they withheld their vote…. the illusion of consensual government would be smashed at one stroke.[/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif][size=3]The truth would be laid bare. People would know how the system really works – and what it is [i]really[/i] based on.[/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif][size=3]That is, force. The closed fist, the cocked and loaded gun. The truncheon and the Tazer. The prison.[/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif][size=3]And once that happens, once the cloak of consent is torn away and tyranny becomes [i]obvious[/i] and undeniable – then tyranny’s days are numbered.[/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif][size=3]Remember: The system relies on our tacit consent. Withdraw that consent and the system will be laid bare for what it is.[/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif][size=3]And then it will not last long.[/size][/font]


[i][font=Times New Roman, Times, serif][size=3]Reprinted with permission from [/size][/font][font=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][size=3][font=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][size=3][font=Times New Roman, Times, serif][i][url="http://ericpetersautos.com/"]EricPetersAutos.com[/url][/i][/font][/size][/font][/size][/font][font=Times New Roman, Times, serif][size=3].[/size][/font][/i]

[Papist]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1328475860' post='2381636']
If it came down to it, I think staying home sends an even louder message than voting third party. Withdraw your consent and all that. I considered spoiling my ballot in protest at the last Canadian federal election, but then after I thought about it I decided that I didn't want to be part of the percentage that voted. By being part of the non-voting percentage the message I'm sending is that I am not going to bow down to this corrupt, violent system. Instead of protesting it within the rules they've left for me, I'm protesting it by not associating myself with it.
That was what my conscience demanded of me.
[/quote]

I like this option. However, since Satan is on the ballet I must vote against him.

[Amppax]

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1328532662' post='2382230']
I like this option. However, since Satan is on the ballet I must vote against him.
[/quote]

Really? That's strange, I didn't see his name.

[Papist]

[quote name='Amppax' timestamp='1328541544' post='2382330']
Really? That's strange, I didn't see his name.
[/quote]

Where you 18 at the last election?