Update On Faith Cecelia

[emmaberry]

[quote name='maximillion' timestamp='1339576251' post='2444237']
Some of the sisters still wear guimpes because that's what they were used to. The sister making profession came from another community and was used to wearing it there so was permitted to continue in NH.
[/quote]

Thanks maximillion--so I suppose Faith C won't get a guimp when she takes the habit?

[quote name='krissylou' timestamp='1339606196' post='2444299']Another former Phatmasser entered a very very strict, traditional Carmel that does not publicize such things. The nuns don't run a website themselves, but some friends of the community do on their behalf (presumably with consultation as to what should be shared). Anyway, when she received the habit there was a notice on the website that one of the postulants had received the habit and become a novice. No name, no other details. (It may have included the date, I'm not sure.)

And don't even THINK about hoping for any photos, they do not do that. But because we live in a visual age and like the pretty pictures, the webmaster friends were obliging enough to post a picture of St. Therese as a novice!

Different communities have different customs and they can do what they like without permission from me, but I have to say that cracked me up!!!
[/quote]

That made me LOL also! I have to say, I understand the cloister, as I am discerning the PCCs, but I absolutely cannot wrap my head around why some strict enclosed communities don't allow pictures/news of those sisters professing vows or receiving the habit. Obviously, the fault lies not with the community but with my lack of understanding.
If anyone could explain this to me that would be great!

[AccountDeleted]

The Carmelites call it a toque, not a guimpe. Just saying.

[OnlySunshine]

[quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1339614901' post='2444349']
The Carmelites call it a toque, not a guimpe. Just saying.
[/quote]

I thought a toque was just a cap, not the headress that goes around the neck. The community I am discerning with wears a toque and they are an active community. It looks a lot like a beanie cap. If it's not a guimpe, it could be called a wimple.

Wimple:

[img]http://www.revivalclothing.com/images/products/display/rectveil_wimple_display.jpg[/img]

Toque (though it would be white and cover all of the hair:

[img]http://www.truesportpur.ca/files/onlinestore/toque_web.jpg[/img]

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='MaterMisericordiae' timestamp='1339615352' post='2444352']
I thought a toque was just a cap, not the headress that goes around the neck. The community I am discerning with wears a toque and they are an active community. It looks a lot like a beanie cap. If it's not a guimpe, it could be called a wimple.

Wimple:



Toque (though it would be white and cover all of the hair:


[/quote]

Well, I'm talking about what we wore in both Wolverhampton and Kirk Edge Carmels in England. We had a one piece article of clothing that went over the head and fastened under the chin using a straight pin. It was called a toque. It was partly open at the back to put on, and fastened at the back either with cloth tapes (as in the move St Teresa of the Andes) or as ours did, with velcro. I spent a lot of time with the Habit sister and the Linen sister getting fitted for the habit and the toque, and it was never called anything else. But then that might be specific to the Carmels that were founded by Mother Mary of Jesus - Madeleine Dupont, in England. All communities aren't the same though and since the English ones that I was in were founded from the French, perhaps they preferred the word toque. We used several French phrases in those Carmels.

[AccountDeleted]

The other thing I learned from googling online is that the guimpe/wimple is worn over the scapular, but the toque is worn underneath. Our were shorter than the original ones, but they still covered the shoulders somewhat and the straight pin for the scapular at the shoulders also went through the part of the toque that was over the shoulders. It went down the back and could be pulled straighter by reaching up with the arm behind the back and pulling at it. I was never good at this because I didn't have the flexibility I needed to reach that high! It was awkward for me until I was given a slightly longer one at the back.

[AnneLine]

All my friends who have entered Carmels (both 1990s and 1991s) have called the white headpiece that goes under the scapular and to which the veil is pinned (or sewn in the Spanish communities) a 'toque' -- it may be just something that came down from Teresa... might have had a specific meaning from her time period.

A lot of communities call the starched collar the 'guimpe'... and a lot of communities refer to a headpiece that is separate from a collar and to which a veil is attached a 'coif' -- but some call it a 'cap'

Each community / order has their own names for their own habit pieces.... just have to go with the flow on this one...kind of like learning national variations on different words.... Tortillas in Latin American countries are VERY different from Spanish tortillas! The first are bread.... the second are.... omlettes!

Ironic side comment -- when I was doing my internship as a Career Counselor, I got in a lot of trouble at oine point for referring to a Muslim Lady's 'headpiece' as headgear. I think they thought I was speaking in a discounting way; I was rather using a generic term that is used in religious communities! Every group has its own preferences....

Edited June 13, 2012 by AnneLine

[emmaberry]

[quote name='AnneLine' timestamp='1339618857' post='2444368']
All my friends who have entered Carmels (both 1990s and 1991s) have called the white headpiece that goes under the scapular and to which the veil is pinned (or sewn in the Spanish communities) a 'toque' -- it may be just something that came down from Teresa... might have had a specific meaning from her time period.

A lot of communities call the starched collar the 'guimpe'... and a lot of communities refer to a headpiece that is separate from a collar and to which a veil is attached a 'coif' -- but some call it a 'cap'[/quote]

How interesting--I definitely know what you mean by the 'cap/coif.' A lot of the active sisters that come to speak at University of Dallas wear this under their veil to cover their hair. I asked one why when I was first learning 'habit lingo' and she said her hair, like her entire body, was consecrated to Jesus and that is why she covered it.

[quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1339617092' post='2444358']
The other thing I learned from googling online is that the guimpe/wimple is worn over the scapular, but the toque is worn underneath. Our were shorter than the original ones, but they still covered the shoulders somewhat and the straight pin for the scapular at the shoulders also went through the part of the toque that was over the shoulders. It went down the back and could be pulled straighter by reaching up with the arm behind the back and pulling at it. I was never good at this because I didn't have the flexibility I needed to reach that high! It was awkward for me until I was given a slightly longer one at the back.
[/quote]
[quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1339614901' post='2444349']
The Carmelites call it a toque, not a guimpe. Just saying.
[/quote]

I get toque/guimp/wimple soooo confused--thanks for the info! I will need to ask the Roswell PCCs what they call it when I visit. That's interesting about how different ones go over/under the scapular. Every OCD nun I have met wears it under the scapular. I always thought it was funny how just a little white peeks out at the shoulders from under the scapular!

On a side note, I asked my episcopal piano teacher who also teaches voice to give me some voice lessons before I enter the convent. Not being catholic, she doesn't know any of the 'religious life lingo' that discerning ppl/PMers often use. I said she could teach me how to sing and I'd share the 'insider lingo' with her!! ...No really though, all this vocabulary can be really confusing to someone just starting out! Thanks for the help.

Edited June 13, 2012 by emmaberry

[MarieClaire]

[quote name='emmaberry' timestamp='1339614306' post='2444346']
That made me LOL also! I have to say, I understand the cloister, as I am discerning the PCCs, but I absolutely cannot wrap my head around why some strict enclosed communities don't allow pictures/news of those sisters professing vows or receiving the habit. Obviously, the fault lies not with the community but with my lack of understanding.
If anyone could explain this to me that would be great!
[/quote]

A PCC community I know shows pictures of the sisters in their convent, but on these pictures you just can see the back of them. No faces, no knowing 'how does she look like?' or 'who is it?'.
The sisters once told me, that they don't want to show the 'whole' sisters, because they want to show that - after the entrance - the sisters are really 'hidden from the world'.
I think what the PCC community I know does, is a great compromise between not showing pictures of the enclosured convent and seeing 'all' of the sisters. So they are able to show pictures to us inquiring wanna-be-nuns