The More Planned Parenthood Speaks Up. The More We See The Vitriol

[Jaime]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1328574571' post='2382658']
An organization is a social relationship between individuals. Organizations cannot be disingenuous, murderous racists. Only the individuals in that organization can.
[/quote]

By that logic you would not hold Haliburton accountable for any environmental issues. Nor would you hold the Church accountable for sexual abuse.

[Jaime]

Also hasan, are you going to comment on the obvious racism being shown by this organization?

[MissyP89]

It's unreasonable to present a comparison between the Church's flaws and Planned Parenthood's. Sanger founded PP with eugenics and racism at its core ... it has only continued in its original mission of selecting which children had the right to live.

The Church is made of broken people, and yes, we've failed grievously in some ways. But it's not like Jesus told Peter to go abuse children.

[kujo]

[quote name='jaime' timestamp='1328575860' post='2382670']
No it has everything to do with the mission of Planned Parenthood.
[/quote]

...which is to provide healthcare services to women in need. In these "African American neighborhoods," those "in need" tend to be black women; same with Latinas in predominantly Hispanic communities, Chinese ladies in the various Chinatowns, etc. That the need for these "services" (including abortions, which you [i]and I[/i] disagree with) tends to be higher in areas containing high densities of minorities sees to be more of a macro-level socio-economic issue than a systemic design by PP.

Edited February 7, 2012 by kujo

[Lilllabettt]

Planned Parenthood behaves in racist ways because its founding mission was explicitly racist. Doesn't matter if the people in charge no longer consciously have that as their goal. You can't breed that kind of evil out of the blood, so to speak.

[qfnol31]

[quote name='kujo' timestamp='1328577585' post='2382685']
...which is to provide healthcare services to women in need. In these "African American neighborhoods," those "in need" tend to be black women; same with Latinas in predominantly Hispanic communities, Chinese ladies in the various Chinatowns, etc. That the need for these "services" (including abortions, which you [i]and I[/i] disagree with) tends to be higher in areas containing high densities of minorities sees to be more of a macro-level socio-economic issue than a systemic design by PP.
[/quote]You realize you sound a bit like Newt Gingrich, right? Just thought I'd point out the irony.

[kujo]

[quote name='qfnol31' timestamp='1328578103' post='2382697']
You realize you sound a bit like Newt Gingrich, right? Just thought I'd point out the irony.
[/quote]

I'm a big fan of the ironic, but I don't quite get the reference. Would you mind explaining it to me so I can share in the lulz?

[qfnol31]

[quote name='kujo' timestamp='1328578433' post='2382700']
I'm a big fan of the ironic, but I don't quite get the reference. Would you mind explaining it to me so I can share in the lulz?
[/quote]http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/174619/newt-gingrich-cheered-for-racism-at-south-carolina-debate/
Newt Gingrich made some comments about food stamps and the poor and people interpreted these as racist comments. He fired back that it wasn't. I'll see if I can find more details on this and try to explain it better, but long story short he was on the receiving end of racist accusations and said that's just the reality.

[kujo]

[quote name='qfnol31' timestamp='1328579012' post='2382709']
[url="http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/174619/newt-gingrich-cheered-for-racism-at-south-carolina-debate/"]http://www.deathandt...arolina-debate/[/url]
Newt Gingrich made some comments about food stamps and the poor and people interpreted these as racist comments. He fired back that it wasn't. I'll see if I can find more details on this and try to explain it better, but long story short he was on the receiving end of racist accusations and said that's just the reality.
[/quote]

Ah. I see.

Well my point was more to show that the phenomena jamie and others were mentioning is not the "fault" of PP. If there's more PP's in impoverished (or racially diverse, since that's the specific topic here) areas, it means that there's more "need" there. If that's the case, the need isn't the fault of PP; there's a "demand" for their services.

[Socrates]

[quote name='kujo' timestamp='1328460222' post='2381493']
LOL @ people on here being offended by people pejoratively-referring to pro-lifers as "anti-woman" or "anti-choice" or whatever. This is the same crowd whose ranks routinely refer to their opposition as "baby killers" who are "pro-abortion" while driving billboard-laden-trucks around town with pictures of aborted fetuses and the like.

I consider myself pro-life (and anti-death penalty, to answer Hasan's highly-accurate charge of hypocrisy) and refuse to engage in all of that nonsense rhetoric people on "my side" engage in. I don't begrudge the "other side" their rhetoric flourishes, because we are just as guilty of it.
[/quote]
While it's definitely not pretty, "baby-killing" is a perfectly accurate description of what goes on inside PP's abortion mills. While this may be news to you, that's the reason we're so much against abortion - the fact that abortion actually kills an unborn baby. And no, that's not crazy over-the-top rhetoric, but the ugly truth.
If abortion were just another surgical operation that merely "removed tissue" - such as getting an appendix removed - then, yes our serious opposition to it would be rather silly.

Things like referring to all pro-lifers as "women-haters" (including the countless pro-lifers who are women and mothers themselves), on the other hand, are complete and utter nonsense.

[quote name='kujo' timestamp='1328566335' post='2382598']

I think they are trying to do what they believe is the best thing for the people they serve. That's the problem--you're dealing with people who have a distorted worldview, which believes that the woman's "health" and "rights" supercedes those of the child within her womb. We, of course, have a different opinion on that matter, which puts our opinion of what's "best" at odds with theirs.

Now, I know there will be those who say something lame, such as "Hitler's death camps were his attempt at 'helping' Germans." Needless to say, I disagree.
[/quote]
I suppose PP's great and overwhelming concern for the good of women explains their setting of abortion quotas which PP centers are urged to meet (this was what turned Abby Johnson against her former employer).

But yeah, Kujo, we get it. The problem's all with those awful horrible meanie right-wing pro-lifers with their baby posters - not those sweet innocent abortion mill owners and operators, who have thoughts only for helping poor women, and whose ever-so-delicate ears we must never offend by nasty talk of baby-killing and such.

[Papist]

I think pro-choicers are anti-men.

[Jaime]

[quote name='kujo' timestamp='1328577585' post='2382685']
...which is to provide healthcare services to women in need. In these "African American neighborhoods," those "in need" tend to be black women; same with Latinas in predominantly Hispanic communities, Chinese ladies in the various Chinatowns, etc. That the need for these "services" (including abortions, which you [i]and I[/i] disagree with) tends to be higher in areas containing high densities of minorities sees to be more of a macro-level socio-economic issue than a systemic design by PP.
[/quote]

It has nothing to do with healthcare. It has everything to do with population control.

This is a quote from her book [u]The Pivot of Civilization[/u] that directly goes to this

[quote][font=VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA][size=2]It [charity] encourages the healthier and more normal sections of the world to shoulder the burden of unthinking and indiscriminate fecundity of others; which brings with it, as I think the reader must agree, a dead weight of human waste. Instead of decreasing and aiming to [b]eliminate[/b] the stocks that are most detrimental to the future of the race and the world, it tends to render them to a menacing degree dominant[/size][/font][/quote]

Shoulder the burden of the dead weight of human waste. She is talking about the poor. She is talking specifically about black people. She started the Negro Project in Harlem and for the sole purpose of providing birth control to poor african american women.

[quote]
[font=VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA][size=2]Her program called for women to receive birth control advice in various situations, including where:[/size][/font][list]
[*][font=VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA][size=2]the woman or man had a “transmissible” disease such as insanity, feeble-mindedness, epilepsy, syphilis, etc.; [/size][/font]
[*][font=VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA][size=2]the children already born were “subnormal or feeble-minded”; [/size][/font]
[*][font=VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA][size=2]the father's wages were “inadequate ... to provide for more children.”[/size][/font]
[/list]
[/quote]

Kujo, What part of this is health care??

We've established that they provide no mammograms. The other "health services" are consultations, exams, etc. for the purpose of providing contraception or an abortion. There are no other outcomes for women. These are the only two "health services" they receive at the end of the day.

The original intent of PP was to lower the population of African Americans. It has not changed.

[Ice_nine]

[quote name='Lilllabettt' timestamp='1328577760' post='2382692']
Planned Parenthood behaves in racist ways because its founding mission was explicitly racist. Doesn't matter if the people in charge no longer consciously have that as their goal. You can't breed that kind of evil out of the blood, so to speak.
[/quote]

Yeah, and I'm really trying to empathize with the people who say "yeah this organization was crazy, but everyone thought like that back then and it's different now."

Well, I don't think everyone thought like that. It was more of an elitist ideology (funny how the elites in their mind represent the general populace). But even if everyone did, ok, please show me the line where Planned Parenthood denounced this ideology and made a real change. And please demonstrate the evidence that shows us it wasn't just a political move to save face, but a genuine revulsion at their past beliefs and genuine turn in a new direction.

[add]

A top official of the Susan G. Komen for the Cure foundation who was involved in the controversy over the group’s funding of Planned Parenthood resigned Tuesday.
Karen Handel, vice president for public policy, acknowledged that she had supported Komen’s decision to pull funding for Planned Parenthood

[fides' Jack]

Just a reminder - we're all on the same side, here.