The More Planned Parenthood Speaks Up. The More We See The Vitriol

[ardillacid]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1328420550' post='2381316']


That would never happen.
[/quote]

You're right! Nothing bad could ever happen in America. Put your faith in our benevolent leaders. Preach it brutha!

[qfnol31]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1328420550' post='2381316']


That would never happen. It doesn't even work in China. I mean it's a real policy but the authorities have a terribly difficult time enforcing it, and it's only enforced in certain areas. Totalitarianism is harder than you'd think.
[/quote]While I agree that it's difficult to enforce, my parents have known quite a few people who didn't escape the rule of one child, except by giving up their first girls. I can assure you from personal connections that it is regularly enforced and is really sad. I'm so blessed that my sister escaped! She did so by being abandoned at a train station.

[4588686]

[quote name='ardillacid' timestamp='1328421266' post='2381323']
You're right! Nothing bad could ever happen in America. Put your faith in our benevolent leaders. Preach it brutha!
[/quote]

Obviously anything could happen. But it is highly unlikely. Just because one potential bad thing, like mass forced abortions, is highly unlikely, doesn't make the leaders benevolent or mean that other bad things couldn't or don't happen. The increased militarization of the nation's police forces is an actual, real trend that could have troubling results in the future, for example.

Edited February 5, 2012 by Hasan

[Ice_nine]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1328419719' post='2381310']
But it's not vitriolic to label yourselves 'pro-life' thereby implying that the other side is 'anti-life'? Of course not. You're just utilizing propaganda to push your passions. Like this letter. Neither are vitriolic unless you're looking for a way to be offended.
[/quote]

It's different. Choice covers such a broad range of things from the trifling and inconsequential to the important and momentous. It's as if saying we are generally against people making choices for themselves, which is ridiculous. And the fact that "anti-choice" is thrown around way, way more often than pro-lifers use "anti-life" You're telling me there's no difference using a pejorative than having it inferred from what we label ourselves? That's dumb.

I say I'm pro-life, why does that imply my opponents are therby anti-life? To use a stupid example, if I say I'm pro-veganism it doesn't mean that anyone who disagrees is anti-veganism. Maybe they don't give a poo one way or the other. Pro-choice folk do not believe that all human beings have the fundamental right to live. That's not to say they're anti-life in general, but that their apathy towards a segment of living human beings doesn't make them pro-life either.

Calling myself pro-life isn't being polemic. Calling someone anti-choice is.

also that pro-choice people are anti-choice themselves in some other things like the choice to mandate gay people receive shock therapy, the choice to blow up clinics and kill abortionists, the choice to counsel women outside of abortion clinics . . . the list goes on. But you're right that's not vitriolic, it's just hypocrisy.

.

Edited February 5, 2012 by Ice_nine

[4588686]

[quote name='Ice_nine' timestamp='1328423147' post='2381346']
It's different.[/QUOTE]

No it's not.

[QUOTE]Choice covers such a broad range of things from the trifling and inconsequential to the important and momentous.[/QUOTE]
You can say the same thing about life. Like is a biological state. Or rather the biological state. But is manifested in a huge variety of ways. From a human being to an amoeba.

[QUOTE]It's as if saying we are generally against people making choices for themselves, which is ridiculous. And the fact that "anti-choice" is thrown around way, way more often than pro-lifers use "anti-life" You're telling me there's no difference using a pejorative than having it inferred from what we label ourselves? That's dumb.[/QUOTE]

You're side uses it as a pejorative all the time. What do you call societies that allow abortion and euthanasia? Does 'culture of death' ring a bell?

[QUOTE]I say I'm pro-life, why does that imply my opponents are therby anti-life?[/QUOTE]

I don't know. Why does pro-choice imply anti-choice?


[QUOTE]Calling myself pro-life isn't being polemic. Calling someone anti-choice is.[/QUOTE]

Just because something is polemical doesn't make it vitriolic.

[QUOTE]also that pro-choice people are anti-choice themselves in some other things like the choice to mandate gay people receive shock therapy, the choice to blow up clinics and kill abortionists, the choice to counsel women outside of abortion clinics . . . the list goes on. But you're right that's not vitriolic, it's just hypocrisy.[/QUOTE]

And pro-life people tend to be supporters of the death penalty and the Iraq war.


Both terms are so vague as to be almost devoid of any substantive meaning. Stop trying to make a distinction without a difference. You're term in just as silly as their's and her letter was far from vitriolic. Polemical, sure. Vitriolic, no.

[Ice_nine]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1328427813' post='2381378']
No it's not.
[/quote]

yes it is! (let's keep doing this it'll be fun)

[quote]You can say the same thing about life. Like is a biological state. Or rather the biological state. But is manifested in a huge variety of ways. From a human being to an amoeba.[/quote]

Ok you're right here. My point there was superfluous, or incomplete rather. Calling someone anti-life is empty and meaningless for the same reason because it implies that said person would be averse to all things living including oneself.

still

Calling myself pro-life in and of itself doesn't really imply anything other than I must assume others are not pro-life. I mean, literally, if I said "Hi Hasan, I'm pro-life" that may carry with it a bunch of political baggage that I may or may not endorse, but it's not saying anything about anyone who isn't pro-life (other than the obvious, they must not be pro-life as I define it). If I say "hi there arse portal, I'm pro-life, and anyone who isn't pro-life is anti-life and hates babies."

Simply put labeling yourself as something doesn't automatically cast any label on anyone else (positive or negative). Just like if someone says, "Hey, Kristen I'm pro-choice" that's not casting a label on anyone who disagrees with them. The difference between calling your self pro-life or pro-choice and calling others anti-choice or anti-life, is that with the latter you're consigning the other group to the antipodes when in reality things exist among a spectrum.

[quote]
I don't know. Why does pro-choice imply anti-choice?[/quote]

It doesn't have to. It can exist along a spectrum. I'm not anti-choice entirely, but I'm anti-harmful choices and destructive choices. Calling me anti-choice however, because I am not pro-choice, is a ridiculous misnomer. As would calling someone who is not pro-life, anti-life because that would imply they are against life in all of its manifestations.

[quote]Stop trying to make a distinction without a difference[/quote]

k.

[quote]You're side uses it as a pejorative all the time. What do you call societies that allow abortion and euthanasia? Does 'culture of death' ring a bell?[/quote]

ring ring.

I've heard Catholics use the term. But I still think it's different to say someone is anti-choice, anti-life than to talk about "forcing your ideology on us," or being "a part of the culture of death." It is in large part ideological or cultural warfare. And while it does draw a line in the sand it's not just empty anti-this, anti-that rhetoric. At least those terms are more nuanced and lead to more discussion "what do you mean by the culture of death?" "what ideology do you think we're forcing on you?"

even if you disagree, I never ever said that pro-lifers were never vitriolic (word sounds funny after saying it so much) or never uses pejoratives, I said that I don't see the term "anti-life" being thrown around nearly as often.

[quote]
You're term in just as silly as their's and her letter was far from vitriolic. Polemical, sure. Vitriolic, no.
[/quote]

My main problem is, if I haven't made this clear, is taking a group who doesn't agree with you and giving them the antithetical label, which is often wildly inaccurate and . . .

IMO vitriolic.

I say let people label their movement what THEY want to call it. Y'know homes?

[Ice_nine]

and even if you want to disagree with all of that, insinuating that pro-lifers are anti-women and apathetic to the plights of the poor is really dumb, largely inaccurate, and

voila

VITRIOLIC

Edited February 5, 2012 by Ice_nine

[Papist]

[quote name='Ice_nine' timestamp='1328419481' post='2381306']
I see some vitriol in the insinuation that pro-lifers are "anti-choice," as if we advocate for some totalitarian regime. What a stupid, stupid term to use.

Also the insinuation that being against parenthood means you hate women, or are somehow crusading against them. Oh, and that we hate poor-women even more and don't care if they get breast cancer.

And hiding behind the veiled threats of "srsly you DON'T wanna floopy with me" just ain't classy.
[/quote]

I think PP means you hate only poor women. Because who can't help but love women that can pay for their own birth control and abortions.

[kujo]

[url="http://www.lifesitenews.com/blog/the-disturbing-video-planned-parenthood-wishes-everybody-would-just-forget/"]http://www.lifesitenews.com/blog/the-disturbing-video-planned-parenthood-wishes-everybody-would-just-forget/[/url]

[Jaime]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1328417204' post='2381269']
what about this was vitriolic?
[/quote]

I'm not nor is any person I know, anti-woman*. This is offensive, hateful and is vitriolic.























*Ok maybe when Winchester is hungry and wants a sammich.

[kujo]

LOL @ people on here being offended by people pejoratively-referring to pro-lifers as "anti-woman" or "anti-choice" or whatever. This is the same crowd whose ranks routinely refer to their opposition as "baby killers" who are "pro-abortion" while driving billboard-laden-trucks around town with pictures of aborted fetuses and the like.

I consider myself pro-life (and anti-death penalty, to answer Hasan's highly-accurate charge of hypocrisy) and refuse to engage in all of that nonsense rhetoric people on "my side" engage in. I don't begrudge the "other side" their rhetoric flourishes, because we are just as guilty of it.

[Ice_nine]

You know even taking into account that "our side" spews out pejoratives and the like, doesn't mean it all of the sudden becomes oki dokie when the other side does it.

"This isn't vitriolic, you're side does the same thing." is not a good argument. Perhaps both sides can be














VITRIOLIC

but that's not what we're discussing here. If you want to talk about the vitriolic pro-life rhetoric in this debacle, then do so. Making generalized accusations about the pro-life side is useless. I"m well aware pro-lifers can be arse portals. We're people too.

Have a nice day

Edited February 5, 2012 by Ice_nine

[kujo]

[quote name='Ice_nine' timestamp='1328469926' post='2381583']
You know even taking into account that "our side" spews out pejoratives and the like, doesn't mean it all of the sudden becomes oki dokie when the other side does it.

"This isn't vitriolic, you're side does the same thing." is not a good argument. Perhaps both sides can be














VITRIOLIC

but that's not what we're discussing here. If you want to talk about the vitriolic pro-life rhetoric in this debacle, then do so. Making generalized accusations about the pro-life side is useless. I"m well aware pro-lifers can be arse portals. We're people too.

Have a nice day
[/quote]

I'm pretty sure I can do what I want.

And what I "want" is for you and others to recognize this irony. It's there...laugh at it.

[Jaime]

[quote name='kujo' timestamp='1328460222' post='2381493']
LOL @ people on here being offended by people pejoratively-referring to pro-lifers as "anti-woman" or "anti-choice" or whatever. This is the same crowd whose ranks routinely refer to their opposition as "baby killers" who are "pro-abortion" while driving billboard-laden-trucks around town with pictures of aborted fetuses and the like.

I consider myself pro-life (and anti-death penalty, to answer Hasan's highly-accurate charge of hypocrisy) and refuse to engage in all of that nonsense rhetoric people on "my side" engage in. I don't begrudge the "other side" their rhetoric flourishes, because we are just as guilty of it.
[/quote]

Just because there are some who call themselves pro-life and are equally vitriolic does not mean that I no longer am allowed to be offended when someone insults me. I would argue that people who use the signs, blow up clinics and engage in vitriolic language are more accurately called anti abortion and less accurately pro-life. But just because they exist doesn't mean that I can't take exception to someone else's language when they are addressing me. To suggest otherwise is ridiculous.

But again you're missing the point I was trying to make in the OP. Planned Parenthood supports this language. They encourage it!! You will find most pro-life people not agreeing with those who are on the extreme side and consider themselves a part of the pro-life movement. And it makes me happy that PP is starting to show their true colors. The truth is eventually going to bear out.

They have no intention to better the health of poor women or any women
They are a racist organization
They promote and support the sex trade of minors
Their existance is directly related to abortion being the #1killer of African Americans today.

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='jaime' timestamp='1328473913' post='2381616']
They are a racist organization
They promote and support the sex trade of minors
Their existance is directly related to abortion being the #1killer of African Americans today.
[/quote]
These are the most offensive to me. I understand being pro-abortion (well, I don't understand it, but I understand that people are), but I don't understand how you can be so ignorant or stubborn to support an organization that is so intrinsically rotten.