The Trials Of Sr Marie Therese

[BarbTherese]

[url="http://www.catholicculture.org/commentary/otc.cfm?id=926"]http://www.catholicculture.org/commentary/otc.cfm?id=926[/url] Interesting article from Catholic Culture on the trials of Sr. Marie Therese

I can thoroughly recomment "Abandonment to Divine Providence" by Jean Pierre de Caussade SJ which is the theme of the article. It marked a dramatic learning curve in my life and remains with me as a very dear and treasured spiritual work - often referred to.
If you do consider buying the book, ensure it has the Letters of Fr. de Caussade at the end of the book. Some copies do not.
It is available here online: [url="http://www.ccel.org/ccel/decaussade/abandonment.html"]http://www.ccel.org/ccel/decaussade/abandonment.html[/url]

[brandelynmarie]

What a beautiful, beautiful article. I may have to add this book to my wish list.

[BarbTherese]

I can thoroughly recommend it and I am, I confess, entirely prejudiced! After I left monastic life, our novice mistress wrote to me and amongst a few things advised me to abandon myself to God's Providence - and at the time I knew really little about the theology of God's Providence and then fell over the work by de Caussade - and never looked back.

[i][b]Abandonment to Divine Providence[/b][/i] by Fr. Jean Pierre de Caussade SJ did strike me on a first read as gentle as St Francis de Sales as a spiritual director and writer of spiritual works and with the simplicity in the whole theology of God's Divine Providing of St. Therese. All three authors over the course of my life have made a very big impression on me.

Reading the article on Catholic Culture about the trials of Sr Marie Therese proved to be most prophetic and thankfully timely - a reminder when life is all going so right that if things go so wrong, in God's Providing it is still all going so right. Received a pretty big rejection tonight and a slam, bang, thank you m'aam, goodbye and get lost at the hands of the institutional church or part of it rather - and probably I think because I suffer Bipolar. C'est la vie! The Lord knows what He is about even when it is entirely negative and mysterious, hurtful, to oneself. On the one hand the entirely human part of oneself is hurt, but on the spiritual level one can with heartfelt joy give thanks to The Lord for what has happened and only because He has permitted it for mysterious very good reasons in Faith. The next step is my personal and spiritual response to the situation and Father de Caussade explains it all beautifully and simply and the response-road to take in such situations.

[brandelynmarie]

St. Francis of Assisi would refer to this as "perfect joy". May I just say that i am no where near that yet?

Especially when there have been things I have done to cause others pain (essentially seperated myself from them)...all in the attempt to prevent them pain! I pray that God brings good out of my mistakes & blesses the people I have hurt. I am still trying to discern when/if/how I should approach them. Some I have reconciled with, Deo Gratias . Now what I do find interesting, is that when pholks treat me in such a way(distance themselves from me for whatever reason) , I truly understand, however so slightly, what is happening & I cannot take their actions personally.


You have had an incredible journey BT; you are definitely a wounded healer.

Edited February 4, 2012 by brandelynmarie

[Immanuel]

[quote name='BarbaraTherese' timestamp='1328331909' post='2380738']
[url="http://www.catholicculture.org/commentary/otc.cfm?id=926"]http://www.catholicc.../otc.cfm?id=926[/url] Interesting article from Catholic Culture on the trials of Sr. Marie Therese

I can thoroughly recomment "Abandonment to Divine Providence" by Jean Pierre de Caussade SJ which is the theme of the article. It marked a dramatic learning curve in my life and remains with me as a very dear and treasured spiritual work - often referred to.
If you do consider buying the book, ensure it has the Letters of Fr. de Caussade at the end of the book. Some copies do not.
It is available here online: [url="http://www.ccel.org/ccel/decaussade/abandonment.html"]http://www.ccel.org/...bandonment.html[/url]
[/quote]
Yes, JPdCaussade is amazing. I have read some of this book online here http://www.catholictreasury.info/books/abandon/index.php
I don't think it contains the letters though.

[BarbTherese]

[quote name='Immanuel' timestamp='1328385473' post='2380978']
Yes, JPdCaussade is amazing. I have read some of this book online here [url="http://www.catholictreasury.info/books/abandon/index.php"]http://www.catholict...andon/index.php[/url]
I don't think it contains the letters though.
[/quote]

I think the letters of St Francis de Sales are very important in that some things in the book itself may seem a little obscure. When one reads his letters to religious that are struggling with some point or points of abandonment to God's Providence, the obscure point really clarifies as St Francis addresses the religious via letter. At least, this was my experience. At times too in my initial read, I found I had the bull by the horns thinking that I understood, but when I read a letter addressing that point, things fell into place and I was able to correct my understanding.

What I found in Abandonment to Divine Providence too is that at times St Francis, for me anyway, over laboured a point and this meant for me that the actual point became obscure. In his letters, he is quite to the point as briefly as possible. I found that his letters gave me better insight into the book itself. But one really needs to read the book and then the letters and then go back to the book I think.

[BarbTherese]

[quote name='brandelynmarie' timestamp='1328372417' post='2380854'] St. Francis of Assisi would refer to this as "perfect joy". May I just say that i am no where near that yet? Especially when there have been things I have done to cause others pain (essentially seperated myself from them)...all in the attempt to prevent them pain! I pray that God brings good out of my mistakes & blesses the people I have hurt. I am still trying to discern when/if/how I should approach them. Some I have reconciled with, Deo Gratias . Now what I do find interesting, is that when pholks treat me in such a way(distance themselves from me for whatever reason) , I truly understand, however so slightly, what is happening & I cannot take their actions personally. You have had an incredible journey BT; you are definitely a wounded healer. [/quote]


You are a very generous, gentle and most kind, loving, thinker and poster methinks, BM! I am sure that I am nowhere near at perfect joy either.

Rest assured that even our faults, failings, our foibles and our sinfulness all has good purpose in God's Providence, and in His Providing for one as an individual and very mysterious to us, He i at the one and the same time, providing for His whole creation. St Francis of Assisi well understood with mystical insight the theological concept of our relatedness - that we are brothers and sisters to absolutely everything in creation.

Out of our human misery of all kinds, God draws good. We can be assured of this from St Paul "all things work together for those that love God". Also the Catholic Catechism has a couple of references and if you would like them, I will post them. In a bit of a hurry at the moment.
I can rather often grieve because I have hurt another - sometimes unintentionally, sometimes not. And it is a holy disposition to learn from this - and I have from your post. This, I think, is what all our faults and faililngs can teach us as we grieve over them, repent, pick ourselves up and go on - we can learn forgiveness for others as we grow through our faults and failings to grasp and internalize that we do indeed share a very common humanity. Repenting over wrongs can also be an excellent school of humility.

"Blessed are the peacemakers" and if we can build bridges of healing wherever pain has occured for whatever reason and negative feelings and relationships a result - it is holy. We are peacemakers.

I have had quite a journey and at times I was indeed wounded, very wounded. Nowadays I feel as if healed. Bipolar in me will probably be a lifelong companion, but nowadays it troubles me very rarely and then it is usually to always fear of the illness itself should it become active, rather than any activity of the illness itself. A good I can recognize coming out of my Bipolar condition, is that I have developed insights and at times can be of assistance to others recognizing in their struggles - my own struggles. This can be the happy result of all our struggles in life - we can reach out to others not as some goody-goody helper, but as a fellow traveller and companion.

[BarbTherese]

Here are some paragraphs from the Catholic Catechism which addresses the theology that God would not permit any kind of evil or wrong unless He can draw a greater good from it. This greater good drawn from our own faults and foibles, sinfulness, may not be apparent until we are in Heaven when "every tear is wiped away" and much, I am sure, obscure and in darkness will be seen in the light of day. We are Faith-travellers - we believe in those things that we cannot as yet see nor understand.

[u][b]Terminology is very important[/b][/u]. God does not will evil, He permits it. In all the good in this world most minute or most great that comes about, it is so because of God's DIRECT Will. In all the yuk, bad, wrongful and evil things that happen in our world, God PERMITS it in order to bring a greater good out of it whether we can sight that good or whether we cannot.

God's Divine Presence and Action, Providing or Providence can NEVER be limited by our understandings, perceptions, concepts and attitudes. This is why a sound grasp, a working knowledge, of Catholic Theology, teaching, is absolutely invaluable (and I think absolutely necessary IMLMHO) in the spiritual journey. Were I connected with any sort of formation, which thankfully I am not, it would be the very first and most important step.

[quote]
Quoting from the Catholic Catechism. An online text can be found here : [url="http://www.scborromeo.org/"]http://www.scborromeo.org/[/url] - and this website is an invaluable learning and resource site for Catholic theology and teaching.

[b]311 [/b]Angels and men, as intelligent and free creatures, have to journey toward their ultimate destinies by their free choice and preferential love. They can therefore go astray. Indeed, they have sinned. Thus has [i]moral evil[/i], incommensurably more harmful than physical evil, entered the world. God is in no way, directly or indirectly, the cause of moral evil. He permits it, however, because he respects the freedom of his creatures and, mysteriously, knows how to derive good from it:
For almighty God. . ., because he is supremely good, would never allow any evil whatsoever to exist in his works if he were not so all-powerful and good as to cause good to emerge from evil itself.

[b]324 [/b]The fact that God permits physical and even moral evil is a mystery that God illuminates by his Son Jesus Christ who died and rose to vanquish evil. Faith gives us the certainty that God would not permit an evil if he did not cause a good to come from that very evil, by ways that we shall fully know only in eternal life.

[b]412 [/b]But [i]why did God not prevent the first man from sinning?[/i] St. Leo the Great responds, "Christ's inexpressible grace gave us blessings better than those the demon's envy had taken away." And St. Thomas Aquinas wrote, "There is nothing to prevent human nature's being raised up to something greater, even after sin; God permits evil in order to draw forth some greater good. Thus St. Paul says, 'Where sin increased, grace abounded all the more'; and the Exsultet sings, 'O happy fault,. . . which gained for us so great a Redeemer!'"
[/quote]

[brandelynmarie]

God is good, isn't He? I am still working on the pick myself up & move on part & so I keep trying! Thank you for putting into words what I have tried to explain about God's Permissable Will & the greater good wrought from it.

[MarysLittleFlower]

this is a great thread I want to read the book now.

[BarbTherese]

[quote name='brandelynmarie' timestamp='1328536957' post='2382269']
God is good, isn't He? I am still working on the pick myself up & move on part & so I keep trying! Thank you for putting into words what I have tried to explain about God's Permissable Will & the greater good wrought from it.
[/quote]

and please forgive me for what follows which is a real rave on!!! God is indeed Good and His Goodness is far superior to any evil in this world whatsoever. I can have problems picking myself up and moving on and some things from my past still come back to memory and if I dont watch it, though I have repented and confessed, these things will still trouble me . What I try to do is not dwell on them, put them out of my mind and renew confidence in God and His Goodness and Mercy and dwell and reflect on that for God does not want us to trouble ourselves over a repented past, rather have confidence and trust in His Mercy and what I call "setting up camp" in God's Goodness, His Love of us and His Mercy that knows no boundaries whatsoever - and these efforts are an intrinsic part of moving on. I am convinced that such concerns from the past and the suffering or difficulty that they can cause is a part of Purgatory and purgation. And they are a renewal of sorrow for the past, but striving to not wallow in them. To visit the past, but never set up camp in it. The Lord does not want us burdened by an unnecessary guilt over things in our past that are totally repented of - rather to begin to "see" the Great Glory of His Unlimited Love and Unlimited Mercy - to be in Peace and to rejoice! "My Peace I give to you" .... "that your Joy may be complete".

Memory can be a funny sort of function. I call it my filing cabinet in my mind. Suddenly without any sort of reference, let alone invitation, a filing draw flies open and a file pops out that is a memory from the long long ago. At times something that in our now is completely forgotten, or so one thought.

After a good Confession, our sins are not only forgiven, God completely and totally forgets them as if they had never ever existed and we are restored to that state of Grace before those confessed sins were forgiven - so complete and total is the Love and Mercy of God in the Sacrament of Reconciliation.

With practise, and a sound spiritual habit formed, soon if something in our past crops up in memory, thoughts of God's Love and Mercy are immediate and concerns about the past are wrapped in that Love and Mercy with praise of and gratitude to God for His Astounding Goodness in all things and especially to oneself.

The above is why I think it is of great importance to have a good grasp and a working knowledge of our theology since all the above is flows out of our Catholic Theology in the main.

I love this prayer by St Teresa of Avila:

[b]"O my God! Source of all mercy! I acknowledge Your sovereign power. While recalling the wasted years that are past, I believe that You, Lord, can in an instant turn this loss to gain. Miserable as I am, yet I firmly believe that You can do all things. Please restore to me the time lost, giving me Your Grace, both now and in the future, that I may appear before You in "wedding garments." Amen."[/b]

I especially love that St Teresa uses the word "please" which is the disposition of 'a beggar', one who is begging, a 'very humble asking' of God. So often written prayers can omit the word which not only is a request, but 'explains' the disposition of the one who is requesting.

Edited February 7, 2012 by BarbaraTherese

[BarbTherese]

Duplicated post

Edited February 7, 2012 by BarbaraTherese

[BarbTherese]

[quote name='MarysLittleFlower' timestamp='1328566782' post='2382599']
this is a great thread I want to read the book now.
[/quote]

Excellent decision to my mind! Happy read - and a prayer that you will finish that read with a sense of Peace and Joy - and renewal.

Edited February 7, 2012 by BarbaraTherese

[BarbTherese]

To feel God's Love and His Mercy is a consolation and a gift to be thankful for; however, Faith is superior to feelings and to believe firmly in God's Love and His Mercy even though one cannot feel it, or is denied the consolation of feelings, is far superior - Faith is a supernatural gift. Feelings are completely human and on the natural level. To believe firmly in God's Goodness and Loving Mercy and to feel oneself as a sinner is getting things into accurate perspective. To believe firmly, to know, that God's Love and His Mercy is far superior to one's sinfulness, a sinfulness which one can indeed feel. is another accurate perspective. We are forgiven sinners simply for the asking, but sinners nonethless and the wise and prudent person knows that life is indeed full of pitfalls for the sinner. Wisdom and Prudence are two of the seven gifts of The Holy Spirit at Confirmation.

"Even the just man falls seventy times seven" - and 7 is the number of infinity in Scripture

[BarbTherese]

[quote name='Immanuel' timestamp='1328385473' post='2380978'] Yes, JPdCaussade is amazing. I have read some of this book online here http://www.catholictreasury.info/books/abandon/index.php I don't think it contains the letters though. [/quote]


Somehow, I ommited to grasp that you had read the book online without the letters.

The book Abandonment to Divine Providence by JPdCaussade together with his spiritual counsels and letters can be read in full free online here: [url="http://www.ccel.org/ccel/decaussade/abandonment.toc.html"]http://www.ccel.org/ccel/decaussade/abandonment.toc.html[/url]
The above link also gives chapter descriptions.