Will You Give Up Health Insurance For Your Catholic Faith?

[Clare~Therese]

This is way over my head. And I'm on my parents' health insurance or whatever.
Is it just me or is insurance/this whole mandate thing really complicated?

Edited February 2, 2012 by Clare~Therese

[Ice_nine]

I would get fined if I didn't have health insurance.
Nor would I be able to go to school.

[LuxChristi]

Interesting responses, thank you for sharing. Another question along the same lines, just taking it a step further:

If you were forced to make the free-will choice between denying Christ and giving up your life, which personal free-will choice would you make, or hope to make?


For reference, as a question was alluded to earlier about being "forced" in relation to the Catholic faith:
The Catholic Church teaches that while circimstances and the need to make difficult decisions may be "forced" upon a person, human beings are never forced against their free-will to go against their faith - it still remains a free-will choice -- however, sometimes making that difficult choice means we experience inconvenience, hardship, loss, pain, sacrifice -- and in the case of Christ's disciples and the martyrs throughout history, death. If the concept of making free-will choices is confusing, especially in relation to the topic of the current healthcare choices, I encourage anyone to contact their priest to better inform one's conscience, in order to be ready to make correct moral choices that correspond to the tenants of one's Catholic faith
.

[Slappo]

I can't opt out of health insurance. It is a mandatory part of my union's contract with the State government. I could choose a lower insurance plan where I don't have to pay anything, but I can't choose to be without insurance.

Needless to say, no I'm not going to quit my job in accounting because of a health insurance mandate. I have a kid and wife to provide for.

[BG45]

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1328103073' post='2378883']
That is one of many reasons why my wife and I are choosing to homeschool. However, there are families that do not have that option, and neither the private school option. e.g. my brother.
[/quote]

Ah, I forgot you and Mrs. Papist homeschooled!

[Papist]

[quote name='BG45' timestamp='1328147771' post='2379333']
Ah, I forgot you and Mrs. Papist homeschooled!
[/quote]

Mrs.Papist. Ha! I wonder if I ever convince her to join PM if she would go with MrsPapist.
I like to refer it as homeboy-school. We are just getting our feet wet in this b/c our oldest is only 5. But my wife has started. They little dude already knows more French than moi.

[Slappo]

[quote name='LuxChristi' timestamp='1328147205' post='2379317']
Interesting responses, thank you for sharing. Another question along the same lines, just taking it a step further:

If you were forced to make the free-will choice between denying Christ and giving up your life, which personal free-will choice would you make, or hope to make?


For reference, as a question was alluded to earlier about being "forced" in relation to the Catholic faith:
The Catholic Church teaches that while circimstances and the need to make difficult decisions may be "forced" upon a person, human beings are never forced against their free-will to go against their faith - it still remains a free-will choice -- however, sometimes making that difficult choice means we experience inconvenience, hardship, loss, pain, sacrifice -- and in the case of Christ's disciples and the martyrs throughout history, death. If the concept of making free-will choices is confusing, especially in relation to the topic of the current healthcare choices, I encourage anyone to contact their priest to better inform one's conscience, in order to be ready to make correct moral choices that correspond to the tenants of one's Catholic faith
.
[/quote]

You have to consider the level of cooperation...

Yoplait supports Susan G Komen which supported planned parenthood which gives abortions. Buying a cup of yoplait yogurt is not immoral, nor does the Church teach it to be.

Now if you bought a yoplait yogurt as opposed to another brand BECAUSE of it's indirect support of planned parenthood, then it would be immoral based on your intention to monetarily support evil actions.

[arfink]

LuxChristi, you seem to be conflating what I have commonly heard called the normative and heroic paths of virtue. Mother church does in fact demand us to resist apostasy with our lives. This is considered to be normative.

We are not, however, all called to such a heroic display of virtue as to actively encourage our persecutors to harm us. This is not required of us. My understanding of the current situation, and whether it's moral for a particular person to buy said insurance is as follows:

1- For normal people who do not own a business and are not in the business of providing heathcare, it would not be immoral in any way to buy health insurance under the HHS mandate, any more than paying your taxes which get used to torture innocents in Guantanamo.

This is because whenever you buy anything you cannot control what that business does with your money. When every business in the world sells tainted insurance plans then you cannot be held culpable for choosing to buy insurance if you need to have it. As an individual you can generally be certain that if you buy insurance that covers contraception that you yourself will not use these immoral offering. If you were a very weak-willed person you might chose to avoid buying these because it might be an occasion of sin for you, but that would be on a case-by-case basis.

Now, it could be immoral if you decided that you would use the contraceptive offerings, or if for some strange reason you weren't going to use them but bought the plan so that you could show how much you like contraception or something (consent of will without actually doing the act is hard to describe, I know).

Now this is of course problematic, but if HHS stands we would not all be forced to heroically forgo all health insurance.

2- For employers though, the situation is different. An employer buying a plan for a whole company has a different problem- he doesn't know who will use the contraceptive coverage and who will not. Thus he is creating a near occasion of sin for his employees by offering them this choice. He is morally accountable for doing this, and this is where the uproar is coming from.

3- For Catholic healthcare providers the situation is even more dire. Instead of merely being forced to provide a near occasion of sin, they are in fact being demanded to participate in the sinful actions themselves. This is also gravely wrong.

Only people in categories 2 and 3 would have to chose not to buy or implement insurance should HHS be made to stand, under a normative understanding of virtue.

Lastly, I would like to point out that, at least in the Archdiocese of Minneapolis and Saint Paul, our bishop has ordered us to pray, to fast, and to contact our representatives, but has not ordered us to cancel our insurance policies. I consider that definitive enough for me.

Edited February 2, 2012 by arfink

[Jesus_lol]

It is my opinion that we should let all the people calling for the faithful to be martyrs to let them lead by example.

[Adrestia]

[quote name='LuxChristi' timestamp='1328147205' post='2379317']
If you were forced to make the free-will choice between denying Christ and giving up your life, which personal free-will choice would you make, or hope to make?
[/quote]

To my knowledge, none of us are immortal - so each of us will die of something at some point in time. Are you asking if a person would choose to deny Christ so to live a little bit longer? If not, can you clarify your question? If so, what's your point?

[Guest love2run]

[size=3][color=black][font=Arial]I’m new was just on another post quoting Catholic Bishops who were saying “WE WON’T COMPLY”, and they’ll do without health insurance rather than have something that goes against their religion. Very c o o l. [/font][/color]

[color=black][font=Arial]As a Christian dad and husband, one obligation is to provide for my family, but a higher call is being an example living my faith, and if I make hypocritical choices and don’t walk my talk, then I think I do spiritual harm to them. Since we believe abortive drugs kill babies not blobs, we dropped my health insurance plan which recently changed to fit the new law. [color=black][font=Arial]Next we had to find an alternative and my friend whose a Methodist pastor friend suggested Christian Health Ministries, which is a medical cost-sharing plan that follows Bible teaching, and is similar to health insurance, and you can still have health coverage in line with your faith. There are others like it. Maybe there’s a Catholic version for you. [/font][/color][/font][/color]

[color=black][font=Arial]The problem with the new law is that it [b]changes how your money is used in relation to abortion drugs[/b], from indirect or not at all, to absolutely direct, where you’re basicaly handing an abortion pill to a girl on her walk of shame the next day. This happens because under the new law, it moves abortion drugs under “preventative services” and there’s no longer a co-pay or deductible for the woman using them, which means its not just the person using them who is paying directly for them but it's EVERYBODY who uses the plan. That’s why Christians are upset, and I thought that’s why your Catholic Bishops are upset too, because directly helping a girl have an abortion goes against your religion and mine.[/font][/color][/size]

Edited February 2, 2012 by love2run

[Slappo]

love2run, paying a premium on healthcare that includes contreceptives/abortificients in it's health care plan is still whats called "material cooperation" as opposed to "formal cooperation".

[Guest love2run]

[i][quote name='Slappo' timestamp='1328218848' post='2379759']
love2run, paying a premium on healthcare that includes contreceptives/abortificients in it's health care plan is still whats called "material cooperation" as opposed to "formal cooperation".
[/quote][/i]

Sorry, not a clue what those terms mean. Was just suggesting a guess to why your bishops won't comply, but you would know the reason better. Maybe a Catholic here can explain why your bishops are saying its wrong. Peace.