4588686 Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 [quote name='thessalonian' timestamp='1327440064' post='2374593'] That's a shell game. [/quote] If by 'shell game' you mean 'it's illegal for the federal government to fund abortions' then yes. It is indeed a shell game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesus_lol Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I think he is saying that it will still indirectly aid the organization. of course, if the government is not allowed to fund prayer and religious speak, why should they still fund other parts of the catholic church and related organizations? its just a shell game obviously, as giving the church money for humanitarian aid and education is just allowing the Church to spend even more of prayer and other stuff. obviously the govt. should stop funding the Catholic schools, etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianthephysicist Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 [quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1327434801' post='2374559'] Federal funding of abortion is illegal (and has been for decades). If the federal government cuts their funding to Planned Parenthood they are not cutting money for abortions. They are cutting money for lower-income women to get free health services. Once again, the republicans use people concerned about moral issues to dump all over the poor. [/quote] Well that's the funny thing about funding. It's not that hard to get around what funding agencies don't want you to do with the money they give you. Say that a clinic has 10 rooms dedicated to things abortion related and 10 rooms strictly for non-abortion related services. They can use government funding to build an addition to their building with 10 more rooms strictly for non-abortion related services. Well, since they really only needed 10 rooms for non-abortion related services, the 10 rooms that originally served as non-abortion related service rooms can easily be re-purposed to allow for abortion related services. On paper, the government funded for PP to create 10 rooms for non-abortion related services, but PP was able to open up 10 more rooms for abortion related services. I'm not saying that this is the case every time, I'm simply saying that it's easy to come up with ways to get around this restriction and use the money to fund abortion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesus_lol Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 [quote name='brianthephysicist' timestamp='1327443188' post='2374624'] Well that's the funny thing about funding. It's not that hard to get around what funding agencies don't want you to do with the money they give you. Say that a clinic has 10 rooms dedicated to things abortion related and 10 rooms strictly for non-abortion related services. They can use government funding to build an addition to their building with 10 more rooms strictly for non-abortion related services. Well, since they really only needed 10 rooms for non-abortion related services, the 10 rooms that originally served as non-abortion related service rooms can easily be re-purposed to allow for abortion related services. On paper, the government funded for PP to create 10 rooms for non-abortion related services, but PP was able to open up 10 more rooms for abortion related services. I'm not saying that this is the case every time, I'm simply saying that it's easy to come up with ways to get around this restriction and use the money to fund abortion. [/quote] this is true, and i mentioned a similar potential situation above your post. Using the same logic could prevent funding of good things just because they may indirectly aid bad or illegal things. this could probably apply to a lot more organizations than just PP, including the Catholic Church Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissyP89 Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1327435020' post='2374562'] Well said, sis. If I could give props, I would... [/quote] Yeah, just noticed I can't prop you. Way to be a rebel. [quote name='Papist' timestamp='1327437350' post='2374578'] I did it for you. [/quote] [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1327437873' post='2374581'] Appreciate it. [/quote] Thank you, gentlemen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG45 Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Federal funding for abortion is illegal, however Planned Parenthood, per former employees, does not differentiate the money used on abortion services and family planning according to former employees. It all goes into one pot, account wise, and gets spent accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 [quote name='brianthephysicist' timestamp='1327443188' post='2374624'] Well that's the funny thing about funding. It's not that hard to get around what funding agencies don't want you to do with the money they give you. Say that a clinic has 10 rooms dedicated to things abortion related and 10 rooms strictly for non-abortion related services. They can use government funding to build an addition to their building with 10 more rooms strictly for non-abortion related services. Well, since they really only needed 10 rooms for non-abortion related services, the 10 rooms that originally served as non-abortion related service rooms can easily be re-purposed to allow for abortion related services. On paper, the government funded for PP to create 10 rooms for non-abortion related services, but PP was able to open up 10 more rooms for abortion related services. I'm not saying that this is the case every time, I'm simply saying that it's easy to come up with ways to get around this restriction and use the money to fund abortion. [/quote] I understand what his point was. It's been a republican refrain for sometime. But that's still not a shell game. The money is not secretly going to abortions. The money they get from the federal government goes towards providing those services to women. None of which funds abortions. Abortion is a constitutionally protected right. What the advocates of funding as a 'shell game' really want is to prevent Planned Parenthood from being able to provide abortion and contraceptive services at all. They don't simply want to free the conscience's of their pro-life constituents. They want to infringe on the rights of others and their real enemy is Planned Parenthood as such. They don't like Planned Parenthood because they provide contraceptives and and STD testing and the only people who need those services are naughty people having naughty sex and if they didn't have recourse to Planned Parenthood then maybe they won't have naughty sex. That's the real goal of just about every person who has a problem with Planned Parenthood. The finding scheme is fine. It's a perfectly reasonable compromise. The real target here is what people convinced that they're soldier's in the Lord's army take to be illicit sex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianthephysicist Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 [quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1327443359' post='2374627'] this is true, and i mentioned a similar potential situation above your post. Using the same logic could prevent funding of good things just because they may indirectly aid bad or illegal things. this could probably apply to a lot more organizations than just PP, including the Catholic Church [/quote] sorry I didn't see your other post until after I posted (I type slow lol) And yes, I do realize that this is a valid point. I had been thinking more along the lines of scale of the problem: being accused of funding prayer is significantly less of a charge than being accused of funding murder. Hmm...My first thought to this was that yes, it would be worth it. I would be fine with the government pulling all its funding on the catholic church and other organizations with similar situations as long as it also pulled all its funding for agencies that supported abortion. But now that I'm thinking about it, that wouldn't really work either. I'm funded by gov't money for my education. Some of the money I would have had to spend on school, I have been able to donate to the catholic church. So by funding my education, the gov't has indirectly helped fund the catholic church which in turn would mean it funded prayer. This really raises a tough question. I don't know of any way to separate this. All I can say is that I'm going to continue fighting to stop gov't funding of PP, even if it means the end of gov't funding to anything catholic, because funding murder is worse than not funding help for the poor; God will show us a different way to take care of those less fortunate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 [quote name='BG45' timestamp='1327444841' post='2374643'] Federal funding for abortion is illegal, however Planned Parenthood, per former employees, does not differentiate the money used on abortion services and family planning according to former employees. It all goes into one pot, account wise, and gets spent accordingly. [/quote] Any evidence? I doubt it. Because if there were any hard evidence for that claim there are any number religious groups with plenty of funding and fairly litigious inclinations who would love to see Planned Parenthood shut down and its members jailed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 [quote name='brianthephysicist' timestamp='1327445632' post='2374655'] sorry I didn't see your other post until after I posted (I type slow lol) And yes, I do realize that this is a valid point. I had been thinking more along the lines of scale of the problem: being accused of funding prayer is significantly less of a charge than being accused of funding murder. Hmm...My first thought to this was that yes, it would be worth it. I would be fine with the government pulling all its funding on the catholic church and other organizations with similar situations as long as it also pulled all its funding for agencies that supported abortion. But now that I'm thinking about it, that wouldn't really work either. I'm funded by gov't money for my education. Some of the money I would have had to spend on school, I have been able to donate to the catholic church. So by funding my education, the gov't has indirectly helped fund the catholic church which in turn would mean it funded prayer. This really raises a tough question. I don't know of any way to separate this. All I can say is that I'm going to continue fighting to stop gov't funding of PP, even if it means the end of gov't funding to anything catholic, because funding murder is worse than not funding help for the poor; God will show us a different way to take care of those less fortunate. [/quote] Right. And by that reasoning the government is also indirectly funding Islam, Judaism, Protestantism, and numerous other heretical and heathenistic groups. And since your religious faith won't allow you to permit poor women to get health care if it means indirectly funding abortions I'm sure that, being the sincere Catholic that you are, you won't take the federal student funding that helps propagate false doctrines that leads innumerable lost souls to hell and away from the Salvic truths of the Holy Roman Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inunionwithrome Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 There may all be things that we like and dislike about Mr. Gingrich. However, he has been in politics for long enough and I think that he is truly sincere about this. Why? I have been praying for him to change his views on pro-life. I believe he has a strong record and will do what is right for all peoples. But, this is not to turn into a political thread. It is the pro-life thread and how he views life. I am very happy about this and pray that many more politicians will turn around their viewpoints and stand on this issue as well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianthephysicist Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 [quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1327446003' post='2374658'] Right. And by that reasoning the government is also indirectly funding Islam, Judaism, Protestantism, and numerous other heretical and heathenistic groups. And since your religious faith won't allow you to permit poor women to get health care if it means indirectly funding abortions I'm sure that, being the sincere Catholic that you are, you won't take the federal student funding that helps propagate false doctrines that leads innumerable lost souls to hell and away from the Salvic truths of the Holy Roman Church. [/quote] I'm confused. I think you have that backwards. I was agreeing with Jlol that the same argument that I presented to stop funding PP could also be applied to stop funding the Catholic Church. I was also agreeing that since the same argument could be used, I would be willing to live with the consequences of losing some funding for the Church. I'm not saying that the gov't is giving out "dirty money" and that I shouldn't accept it. I'm saying that if the consequence of cutting funding to PP means I can no longer receive gov't money, then so be it. But I honestly do not find a problem accepting the money because it isn't dirty money. Also, by accepting the money, I am (in a very small way) guaranteeing that less money goes toward funding abortion and am putting money towards stopping abortion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 [quote name='Tony' timestamp='1327370289' post='2374188'] nah they dont care who's getting aborted, it's all about the paycheck. [/quote] Standards have indeed fallen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 [quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1327445581' post='2374653'] The money is not secretly going to abortions. The money they get from the federal government goes towards providing those services to women. None of which funds abortions. [/quote] By that logic, funding the Nazi Party would be perfectly razzle dazzle too. Just so long as the money only goes to support their work towards helping German families, rather than their concentration camps. [quote] Abortion is a constitutionally protected right. [/quote] Thus spake the Emanation of the Penumbra. Screw what the Constitution actually says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 [quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1327434801' post='2374559'] Federal funding of abortion is illegal (and has been for decades). If the federal government cuts their funding to Planned Parenthood they are not cutting money for abortions. They are cutting money for lower-income women to get free health services. Once again, the republicans use people concerned about moral issues to dump all over the poor. [/quote] There are other organizations besides Planned Parenthood that help the poor, such as Catholic Charities. Or, at least there would be more if the Obama-Sebellius machine hadn't imposed the contraception mandate in Obamacare (as well as the California mandate). We'll see what happens later this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now