Genocide Denial

[fides' Jack]

[quote name='MissMaro' timestamp='1327526849' post='2375310']
I would define a liar as someone who perpetually lies, not someone who has ever lied. I'd agree that most people have probably lied at some point in their lives, but I wouldn't agree that it's something people necessarily make a habit of. It's certainly not something a Christian should do regularly. God wouldn't have forbidden lying in the Ten Commandments if it were impossible not to lie, and I can testify to the fact that people can and do choose not to deceive other people.
[/quote]

I agree with this. Have a good day!

[Dennis Tate]

My last name is English and it is astonishing how ignorant most of us are as to the reality of what we did to the First Nations peoples of North America or to the Irish!

I had been singing the Irish songs of rebellion along with the Clancy Brothers and Tommy Makem for a decade or more before I finally figured out that my last name was actually from Northern Ireland, and was in fact English....this was a thoroughly humiliating experience for me!

There could be some hope for your tutor yet!

Edited January 26, 2012 by Dennis Tate

[MissMaro]

[quote name='Dennis Tate' timestamp='1327584394' post='2375645']
My last name is English and it is astonishing how ignorant most of us are as to the reality of what we did to the First Nations peoples of North America or to the Irish!

I had been singing the Irish songs of rebellion along with the Clancy Brothers and Tommy Makem for a decade or more before I finally figured out that my last name was actually from Northern Ireland, and was in fact English....this was a thoroughly humiliating experience for me!

There could be some hope for your tutor yet!
[/quote]

Oops! But at least you aren't in denial about anything.

[Amppax]

[quote name='MissMaro' timestamp='1327251516' post='2373232']
Era Might,

I have two incredibly close friends. One is a Catholic and the other is an atheist. And I have to say that the problem with the latter friendship is that we can't discuss everything. She's not interested in my religion at all, and we don't have the same basic beliefs so there are certain topics, like abortion, that can turn really ugly. (Though we tend just to avoid discussing them.)

But my Catholic friend and I can discuss anything, and that makes me feel much closer to him, even though I am extremely fond of both of them.

So, I tend to agree with you. And I'm not sure my atheist friend and I would be friends at all if I hadn't been pretty agnostic in my beliefs at the time I met her. We used to agree on pretty much everything, and that's what helped us become close in the first place.
[/quote]

I don't know how being friends with someone who advocates for abortion is significantly different. If you manage to be friends with this other person who is for abortion, why can't you just apply the same principle of avoiding discussing the problematic issue to this friendship? It seems to me that there are some other issues here besides just a difference in belief.

[MissMaro]

[quote name='Amppax' timestamp='1327677793' post='2376137']
I don't know how being friends with someone who advocates for abortion is significantly different. If you manage to be friends with this other person who is for abortion, why can't you just apply the same principle of avoiding discussing the problematic issue to this friendship? It seems to me that there are some other issues here besides just a difference in belief.
[/quote]

Yes, one of those issues being that he's making Armenian genocide denial his life's work. It's really one thing to believe something that's mistaken and another thing to fight actively for something that has been shown to be a total lie. This isn't something he vaguely believes. This is something he studies daily and writes about frequently. It's a lie he's spreading as widely as he can, along with his belief that governments have a right to do whatever they [i]can[/i] to survive.

(And actually I did stop being friends with someone because he started working for Planned Parenthood a few years back, so clearly I think that working for an abortion clinic is a similarly big deal...)

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='MissMaro' timestamp='1327452111' post='2374704']
I know almost nothing about it, but I do remember him giving it as an example of something that clearly wasn't a genocide...
[/quote]

The English government's policies were enacted to result in the deliberate starvation of the Irish nation. That IS genocide and qualifies as a holocaust i.e. massacre.

"[color=#000000][font=sans-serif][size=3] 1948 [/size][/font][/color][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations"]United Nations[/url][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_the_Prevention_and_Punishment_of_the_Crime_of_Genocide"]Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide[/url][color=#000000][font=sans-serif][size=3] (CPPCG). Article 2 of this convention defines genocide as "any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a [/size][/font][/color][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation"]national[/url][color=#000000][font=sans-serif][size=3], [/size][/font][/color][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnicity"]ethnical[/url][color=#000000][font=sans-serif][size=3], [/size][/font][/color][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(classification_of_human_beings)"]racial[/url][color=#000000][font=sans-serif][size=3] or[/size][/font][/color][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion"]religious[/url][color=#000000][font=sans-serif][size=3] group, as such: killing members of the group; causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life, calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; [and] forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."[/size][/font][/color]

[MissMaro]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1327885568' post='2377266']
The English government's policies were enacted to result in the deliberate starvation of the Irish nation. That IS genocide and qualifies as a holocaust i.e. massacre.

"[color=#000000][font=sans-serif][size=3] 1948 [/size][/font][/color][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations"]United Nations[/url][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_the_Prevention_and_Punishment_of_the_Crime_of_Genocide"]Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide[/url][color=#000000][font=sans-serif][size=3] (CPPCG). Article 2 of this convention defines genocide as "any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a [/size][/font][/color][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation"]national[/url][color=#000000][font=sans-serif][size=3], [/size][/font][/color][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnicity"]ethnical[/url][color=#000000][font=sans-serif][size=3], [/size][/font][/color][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(classification_of_human_beings)"]racial[/url][color=#000000][font=sans-serif][size=3] or[/size][/font][/color][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion"]religious[/url][color=#000000][font=sans-serif][size=3] group, as such: killing members of the group; causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life, calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; [and] forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."[/size][/font][/color]
[/quote]

In [i]his[/i] view it's not a genocide. I didn't comment either way just because I didn't know much about it other than what I read on Wikipedia which I don't really consider the most reliable source (though it can be very useful.) God bless.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='MissMaro' timestamp='1327891948' post='2377342']
In [i]his[/i] view it's not a genocide. I didn't comment either way just because I didn't know much about it other than what I read on Wikipedia which I don't really consider the most reliable source (though it can be very useful.) God bless.
[/quote]
I don't consider it the best source either, but its great for definitions.
As to the Irish genocide, when you have millions starving and you are using the army to remove food from the country you are committing genocide.

[MissMaro]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1327894156' post='2377395']
I don't consider it the best source either, but its great for definitions.
As to the Irish genocide, when you have millions starving and you are using the army to remove food from the country you are committing genocide.
[/quote]

I'm not arguing with you. I'm just not willing to talk about things I know very little about. There's very little I could add to the discussion anyway. I will have to read up on this when I get the chance. Sounds bad.