Newt Gingrich Controversies

[4588686]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWAngmctWWU&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWAngmctWWU&feature=related[/url]



[color=#FF0000][size=6]SOME BAD LANGUAGE!!![/size][/color]

[Marie-Therese]

Given the current tenor of the thread, I figured this should go here.

[img]https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/430112_329860130387632_136251516415162_984504_1793392245_n.jpg[/img]

[4588686]

[quote name='kujo' timestamp='1327359995' post='2374054']
Let me premise this by stating that my following statement is not nearly as combative or rude as it will probably sound like. I like you, Hasan, and appreciate our conversations, even when we disagree. So here we go:[/QUOTE]

I feel the same way. I generally don't take arguments personally and certainly not this one.

[quote][b]I reject the notion that Obama would never have been able to get anything done because of the Republicans in the House and Senate.[/b]

This man had a majority in both chambers for the first 2 years of his presidency, and rode into office on a wave of "hope" and expectations. The whole cult of personality that surrounded he and his campaign placed HIM as the center of the Democratic party and provided him with an incredible amount of political capital. In my view, he could/should have come in and done almost anything and gotten in through with overwhelming support of much of the American public--not only the Dems who naturally supported him, but also the vaunted Independent voting bloc who voted for him almost unanimously. My contention is that [i]he[/i] was so powerful in those first few days.[/QUOTE]


What is this contention based on? Certainly not empirical evidence. The 2009 Recovery Act, his first major legislative fight, was incredibly watered down. About 100 billion below what even his cautious political advisers thought they could get through (and way, way below what sound economics would dictate be spent) and with numerous tax breaks ad that did not receive a single republican vote in the House. As I'm sure you know legislation, particularly major legislation, takes time and political energy to pass. The amount of legislation they got through in the first two years was significant and that was with an extremely conservative Republican block and a loss of their veto proof Senate with the election of Scott Brown.

[QUOTE]And what did he do, on basically the first day of office? He comes out and tells the Dems in Congress and Senate to put together a healthcare plan that he could sign.[/QUOTE]

Which is the function of the legislative branch: To propose and vote on legislation.

[QUOTE]In essence, he delegated the responsibility of drafting a piece of legislation that addresses one of the mostly contentious and complex issues to perhaps the least qualified group of people on the planet--Congressmen and Senators! Instead of bringing these people--including reasonable Republicans-- in and coming up with a bill together, he let these morons go at it and fill it with the croutons and pork and nonsense that eventual came to be known as "Obamacare."[/QUOTE]

He was quite involved in putting together the package. I don't know what more you want from the President, other than advocacy and consultation, which he provided, during the legislative portion of a Bill's life.

[QUOTE]Now, this is all well and good if you're a big fan of a decentralized-authority in the Executive Branch. But the fact is that savvy politicians would NEVER have allowed this to sort of thing to happen. They would have realized that by giving it to the Congress and Senate, you completely change the tenor and complexion of the debate. You allow politics to enter into the fray. But even then, the disaster was handled in a very Obama-esque way: disasterously! He allowed himself and his administration to be usurped by Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi, who used this as an opportunity to fatten up their coffers. Instead of taking the lead, Obama let these two windbags be the face of it all, thereby removing himself from the "authoritative" role you'd hope the President would occupy.[/QUOTE]

The Bill isn't going to pass without Nansi Pelosi and Harry Reid. They are the leaders of the two LEGISLATIVE bodies of the legislative branch. A branch which is COEQUAL with the President.

[QUOTE]Then there's the Republicans, who did exactly what you'd expect they would do. Again, Obama and his Democratic cohorts did exactly the opposite of what I or any other politically-astute person would.[/QUOTE]

Right. What the floopy do David Axelrod or Ron Emmanuell know about political savvy.

[QUOTE]Rather than trying to negotiate and seek compromise with a minority of people who were never going to agree or comply, they ought to have put together a bill, presented it to the American people, and let the Republicans go on television and explain why they were vetoing healthcare reform.[/QUOTE]

The American people neither vote on nor read legislation. The lethargy of the citizenry is nothing new. The Republicans DID go out and explain why the opposed Healthcare Reform and, with the help of Fox News and the Tea Party media buzz, did quite a good job convincing people to oppose a bill that's in their financial self interest to support. The bill was not terribly politically popular. The government option had to be taken out for the bill to pass. Do you remember how close that was? Reconciliation had to be used, undermining the legitimacy of the Bill itself, just to get passed and every single Republican currently running for President has vowed to repeal it. Do you honestly think that something stronger could have passed? If the republicans managed to convince a center right, vaguely aware country that a bill basically identical to a piece of legislation signed in by a 2008 Republican nominees was Socialism waxing proud then do you really think that a single payer system could have possibly gotten through? That is fantasy. We live in a center right country. Obama got roughly 52% of the popular vote, as I recall. That's not a huge, popular mandate.

[QUOTE]The way it was handled galvanized Republicans and allowed them to become this ridiculously-powerful group that was on the offensive instead of the defensive.[/QUOTE]

Being on the defensive and intransigence is a powerful position to be in in virtue of the structure of our legislative branch.

[QUOTE]This was typical of the way they've handled Obama ever since. He ceded his role at the outset of his first major political fight. When he should've stood up to the bullies, he simply put his lunchmoney on the table and slunk away.[/QUOTE]

Not true. He got it passed. Not an inconsiderable feat. Nothing great. But something possible.

[QUOTE]One last word: say what you want about her, but this croutons would [b][u][i]never[/i][/u][/b] have happened with Hillary as the President.

EDIT: Fixed a mispelling. Kudos to ardillacid for the find. Thanks dude!
[/quote]

Right. Because the Clintons being back in power wouldn't be a rallying cry to the republicans. And that woman is a pathological liar. I've never seen anyone so contemptuous of the American people. Does she really think that the American people are so clucking stupid that they are going to believe that the Secret Service allowed a helicopter carrying the First Lady and the First Daughter to and under Serbian sniper fire and then have them run for cover? THE SECRET SERVICE UNNECESSARY HAD THE FIRST LADY AND THE FIRST DAUGHTER RUN FOR COVER UNDER SNIPER FIRE? If she seriously thought that anyone would believe that then I can't imagine what she thinks of the people whose votes she was vying for. To hell with her.

Edited January 27, 2012 by IcePrincessKRS

[Maximilianus]

I take it hassy wouldn't vote for Hillary Clinton, but I'm not sure, he was a little vague

[BigJon16]

So, how bout' them Giants? ...

[ardillacid]

Gingrich: "she turned me into a Newt!"

[homeschoolmom]

Newt Schrute?

[kujo]

[quote name='BigJon16' timestamp='1327682435' post='2376186']
So, how bout' them Giants? ...
[/quote]

Yeaaaahhhhh buddy

[Era Might]

[quote name='BigJon16' timestamp='1327682435' post='2376186']
So, how bout' them Giants? ...
[/quote]
Ahem.

[Adrestia]

You guys are funny.

[Socrates]

[quote name='ardillacid' timestamp='1327682937' post='2376189']
Gingrich: "she turned me into a Newt!"
[/quote]

[img]http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g470/GregoryIRice/Fink-Nottle.jpg[/img]
I wish the world was a newt!

Edited January 30, 2012 by Socrates

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Adrestia' timestamp='1327703610' post='2376323']
You guys are funny.
[/quote]

Like a clown? Do I amuse you?

[Winchester]

Did the dude that attempted to mock my position on inflation ever respond? I need his address so I can send him a bill for tuition.

[Winchester]

I don't even know if that was in this thread or on facebooks. I am entirely too popular.

[GregorMendel]

One Word: Integrity.

I dont see it in that man.