BG45 Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 [quote name='Amppax' timestamp='1327163606' post='2372654'] Norseman, you do realize that BG is studying criminology? He probably knows more about those issues than you do. Jussayin. [/quote] Maybe, maybe not. But thanks! I do know that prison policy is never getting fixed because it's so broken. I know 1 in 3 African American males will be imprisoned in their lifetime and lose the privlege to vote and serve on a jury. I know more than 7 million (or roughly 1 in 31) Americans are under the supervision of our system currently, most on probation and parole. Pennsylvania, the state I'm studying in, has a capacity of 43,000 in its 27 state institutions, we have 51,000 inmates; and we're not that far overcapacity compared to a lot of states. I'm also not a fan of Riverside County in Cali charging inmates $142 a day for the honor of staying in overcrowded prisons; this comes out to roughly 50,000 a year (a few over but I don't have the math in front of me). Since folks coming out of prisons are among the least desirable to hire, it's highly unlikely a guy serving ten years or so is going to pay off the half a million he owes the government for imprisoning him. [quote name='Norseman82' timestamp='1327164073' post='2372658'] And if a math major said 2+2=5, who would be correct? [/quote] Nice personal attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 [quote name='Norseman82' timestamp='1327113573' post='2372420'] Simple solution - stop doing drugs! You don't want to go to prison, stop breaking the law![/quote] Unfortunately, there is no "simple solution" when it comes to, for example, an addict who has been using meth for ten plus years. A lifelong drug addict will do anything for his fix, anything to stop the pain and desperation of withdrawal - theft, trafficking, prostitution, fraud, joining a gang, you name it. It's a very terrifying and sad way to live. I'm sure plenty would like to avoid prison, but not for the same reasons you and I would like to avoid it - they would like to avoid it because their drug supply stops, at least initially, so cue the physical and psychological horrors of withdrawal. Besides that, prison - if they've been there before and know the system, and especially if they have gang ties - is like a haven for them. Free food and shelter, the opportunity to bathe, clean clothes, exercise equipment, medical care, even special privileges like skills training, educational services, religious meetings, television, and reading materials. That's at least the closest thing to Heaven for a homeless drug addict used to sleeping in the streets and starving half to death (because any money obtained is put aside for drugs). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 [quote]It takes a year or two of campaigning usually to build a prison, it takes decades to convince the public you can shut one down. Which is kinda sad, because usually the people who don't want it shut down aren't really benefiting from it anyway; usually the argument is made that it brings in money to the local community. Bulk suppliers supply all the goods from toiletries to food. Depending on if it's a federal facility or not, most workers won't even be from the area. The visitors tend to be spending most of their money for a bus ticket to the prison from out of town and not buying things in local shops.[/quote] It's a lot more complicated than that. State prisons rely on local community for more than employees. The contractors hire local to build. There are services that can't be sold in bulk like water and electricity. Overcrowding of the prison can mean taking some to to county which the county gets paid well for that per diem. There is no question that communities benefit from hosting a state prison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG45 Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) [quote name='jaime' timestamp='1327193716' post='2372958'] It's a lot more complicated than that. State prisons rely on local community for more than employees. The contractors hire local to build. There are services that can't be sold in bulk like water and electricity. Overcrowding of the prison can mean taking some to to county which the county gets paid well for that per diem. There is no question that communities benefit from hosting a state prison. [/quote] Sorry if it didn't come across I was referring to federal facilities for most of that, I was poorly distinguishing in my writing of that part of the post. I prop your post for truth...at least in some cases. There have been cases where the local communities get so little from state prisons that they ask them to leave, or to change their name so as not to be associated with the community. Edited January 22, 2012 by BG45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 [quote name='jaime' timestamp='1327193716' post='2372958'] There is no question that communities benefit from hosting a state prison. [/quote] Eh, wouldn't it depend on the community though? Rahway State Prison changed its name to East Jersey State Prison because the community didn't want their town to be associated with a max-security prison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 [quote name='BG45' timestamp='1327193905' post='2372960'] Sorry if it didn't come across I was referring to federal facilities for most of that, I was poorly distinguishing in my writing of that part of the post. I prop your post for truth...at least in some cases. There have been cases where the local communities get so little from state prisons that they ask them to leave, or to change their name so as not to be associated with the community. [/quote] I can't deny that. There are some cases where they weren't beneficial but most of my experiences were the opposite. [quote name='HisChildForever' timestamp='1327194087' post='2372963'] Eh, wouldn't it depend on the community though? Rahway State Prison changed its name to East Jersey State Prison because the community didn't want their town to be associated with a max-security prison. [/quote] I agree it's not all cases. There are some obvious detriments to having a maximum security prison in your back yard. Some areas can have a decline in property values. (I think that's part of the case with Rahway). But more find it to be profitable if it's the right fit for the community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 [b] Chuck Norris Endorses Newt Gingrich, Swings Crucial 'Walker, Texas Ranger' Constituency[/b] Fri, Jan 20 2012 Newt Gingrich picked up the most important endorsement of his presidential campaign on Friday – Chuck Norris. The indomitable action star penned a column for World Net Daily Friday arguing that Gingrich has the “experience, leadership, knowledge, wisdom, faith and even humility to learn from his failures (personal and public) can return America to her glory days. And he is the best man left on the battlefield who is able to outwit, outplay and outlast Obama and his campaign machine.†It appears the “Walker, Texas Ranger†star would have endorsed Rick Perry, whom Norris referred to as his “friend,†but once the Texas governor dropped out Norris followed his lead in endorsing the former Speaker of the House. Norris, who campaigned for Mike Huckabee the last time around (video below), listed ten questions he and his wife Gena asked in order to determine their endorsement. Gingrich’s assertion that he is a “historian†probably won him a few of those, such as, “Who is most committed to follow and lead by the U.S. Constitution?†and “Who has the best working comprehension of America?†Also read: Fake CNN Alert Alleges Newt Gingrich Asked Ex-Wife for Abortion Norris drew some historical parallels that would have made Gingrich proud, claiming that the government is currently robbing its citizens “like the king of England did before the Revolution.†How Norris settled on Gingrich as the answer to a couple of the other is less clear. Among the queries, “Who has clear and present moral fortitude?†and “Who is the most fiscally prudent?†Norris, like other voters, must believe repentance cleanses all sins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 [quote name='HisChildForever' timestamp='1327194087' post='2372963'] Eh, wouldn't it depend on the community though? Rahway State Prison changed its name to East Jersey State Prison because the community didn't want their town to be associated with a max-security prison. [/quote] Who would want to base their local economy on profits from prisons anyway? Even if they are economically advantageous there is something seriously troubling, both in terms of the incentives it supplies for the state to not reform it's criminal justice system in ways that may decrease the population of prisoners, and just the moral ickyness of it, about trying to base your economy on a prison and trying to keep that prison running after it is no longer necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 [quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1327194936' post='2372974'] Who would want to base their local economy on profits from prisons anyway? Even if they are economically advantageous there is something seriously troubling, both in terms of the incentives it supplies for the state to not reform it's criminal justice system in ways that may decrease the population of prisoners, and just the moral ickyness of it, about trying to base your economy on a prison and trying to keep that prison running after it is no longer necessary. [/quote] Yeah...they have a facility at East Jersey State for sex offenders - SO who've already served their time but are involuntarily committed because they're a danger to the community. I went with my cohort for an organized tour and we met a few of them. Fun times.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 [quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1327194936' post='2372974'] Who would want to base their local economy on profits from prisons anyway? Even if they are economically advantageous there is something seriously troubling, both in terms of the incentives it supplies for the state to not reform it's criminal justice system in ways that may decrease the population of prisoners, and just the moral ickyness of it, about trying to base your economy on a prison and trying to keep that prison running after it is no longer necessary. [/quote] I was working with a small town in southern Iowa that wanted to build a county jail. Not because they had any crime, but because the towns and counties around them would have paid them hundreds of thousands of dollars in per diems to house prisoners they couldn't . Until judgement day that facility would always be necessary and be an integral part of the town's economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted January 22, 2012 Author Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) [quote name='jaime' timestamp='1327186723' post='2372895'] You're not 15. Now your profile says your 20 so it's not so hard to remember when you were young(er) and was looking towards others to help form your opinions. I don't agree with everything futurepriest is saying or going to say. But I'm an adult and have a different perspective. I do like HOW he goes about developing his own opinion. And I like how he's honest about his approach. We all start out doing the exact same thing and work our way to developing critical thinking. Granted some of us never get there but I'm not going to fault the kid for starting off on the right foot. [/quote] Thank you. My points are sometimes weak, but I'm not the greatest debater in the political field. My expertise is theology, scriptural theology specifically. I'm still trying to form my opinions, as you say. I'm as Conservative as it gets (Except for what's been branded as Conservative thinking, such as supporting capital punishment), but I would say that I lean more to whatever the Church says is okay. So far, through Saints and what-not, I've gathered that Liberalism is bad. John Henry Newman has some great stuff about the immoralities of Liberalism, if anyone wants to read it. Edited January 22, 2012 by FuturePriest387 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKolbe Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 The only good thing about Newt Gingrich is that he is not Barrack Obama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 [quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1327197027' post='2372998'] The only good thing about Newt Gingrich is that he is not Barrack Obama. [/quote] True that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 [quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1327197027' post='2372998'] The only good thing about Newt Gingrich is that he is not Barrack Obama. [/quote] Yes sir' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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