For Those Of You Who Are Curious...

[Queen'sDaughter]

When I was visiting my brother at his parish I came across a flier with the horarium of the Valparaiso Carmel of Jesus, Mary and Joseph. I had always wondered what there day was like, and some of you may have as well. I saw that carmelite 15 was going to visit the daughter community of these Carmelites, so I expect that this is the same horarium that the PA Carmel follows.

Here goes:

[center]4:30 a.m. Rise[/center]
[center]5:00 Lauds[/center]
[center]5:20-6:20 Mental Prayer in Choir[/center]
[center]6:45 Terce[/center]
[center]7:00 Holy Sacrifice of the Mass[/center]
[center]8:45 Work[/center]
[center]11:00 Sext and Examen[/center]
[center]11:25 Dinner[/center]
[center]12:15 p.m. Recreation[/center]
[center]1:20 Quiet Time[/center]
[center]2:20 None[/center]
[center]2:30 Holy Rosary[/center]
[center]3:00 Spiritual Reading[/center]
[center]3:40 Work[/center]
[center]5:00 Vespers[/center]
[center]5:20-6:20 Mental Prayer in Choir[/center]
[center]6:25 Supper[/center]
[center]7:15 Recreation[/center]
[center]8:20 Compline[/center]
[center]Quiet Time[/center]
[center]9:30 Matins[/center]
[center]10:30 Retire[/center]

[EmilyAnn]

4.30AM! The Carmelites I'm visiting don't wake up until 5.20, but the Benedictines I'm going on a retreat to wake up at 4.45AM. Nuns wake up so early!

I've never seen a timetable with Daily Rosary before, that's really interesting.

[sixpence]

i would question my ability to live for extended periods of time on 6 hrs sleep (without injuring someone) ...but i guess anything is possible

[Queen'sDaughter]

[quote name='EmilyAnn' timestamp='1326484672' post='2368439']
4.30AM! The Carmelites I'm visiting don't wake up until 5.20, but the Benedictines I'm going on a retreat to wake up at 4.45AM. Nuns wake up so early!

I've never seen a timetable with Daily Rosary before, that's really interesting.
[/quote]

To true! The order I am discerning with rises at 4:30 every day expect Sunday. "Do they sleep in on Sundays", I wondered with joy and hope? Oh no, how silly of me. On Sundays they rise at 4:20. Figures.

By the way... the six hours of sleep thing is why I could not be a Carmelite. Benedictines believe that to function properly one must have eight hours of sleep. In my case, that is definitely true.

[InPersonaChriste]

[quote name='Queen'sDaughter' timestamp='1326485330' post='2368454']
To true! The order I am discerning with rises at 4:30 every day expect Sunday. "Do they sleep in on Sundays", I wondered with joy and hope? Oh no, how silly of me. On Sundays they rise at 4:20. Figures.

By the way... the six hours of sleep thing is why I could not be a Carmelite. Benedictines believe that to function properly one must have eight hours of sleep. In my case, that is definitely true.
[/quote]


To bad no orders listened to einstien.. He believe in ten hours..

Mind you... I am only getting 7 hours of sleep right now..

[AccountDeleted]

I am a bit surprised at only 6 hours sleep as St Teresa made it very clear that she wanted her nuns to have 7 hours sleep every night and a siesta during the day. hmmmm.

[Aineiora]

Hello!
Mostly a "lurker" here (although I hate the term - I prefer introvert observer). My daughter is there at the Carmel and the "quiet time" is code for nap time and there is some slight flexibility in the schedule with feast days, special visitors, etc. In the years that we have gotten to know the rhythms of Carmel, we have found that there is a proper sensibility built in within the rules and care is taken to ensure that Sisters who are " under the weather" are given proper consideration. Anecdotally speaking, I can attest that they are very happy and their schedule is not too onerous.
Pax Christi!

[OnlySunshine]

[quote name='InPersonaChriste' timestamp='1326485579' post='2368460']
To bad no orders listened to einstien.. He believe in ten hours..

Mind you... I am only getting 7 hours of sleep right now..
[/quote]

I need 9 to 10 hours of sleep to function at my optimum level. If I don't get at least 7 hours, I get cranky and downright irritable. I often wondered if I could handle life as a religious when I was discerning. It smells of elderberries because I have [url="http://www.end-your-sleep-deprivation.com/delayed-sleep-phase-syndrome.html"]delayed sleep phase syndrome[/url] (circadian rhythm disorder) that causes me to fall asleep in the wee hours of the morning and sleep til almost noon (or after) most days. When I kept a full-time job, I had a lot of trouble adjusting my schedule to meet the needs of the hours I worked.

I have often complained to doctors about my problem. Each and every one of them looks at me like I have insomnia and prescribes sleeping pills. The thing is, I do not have trouble sleeping when I'm tired. It just seems like being tired comes later at night. Sleeping pills never have a permanent effect on me.

Edited January 14, 2012 by MaterMisericordiae

[FutureCarmeliteClaire]

I have seen different scheduled based on the specific Carmel. I saw one that got up at 5:00, one at 5:30, and I think one at 6:00 as well.

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='MaterMisericordiae' timestamp='1326509513' post='2368679']
I need 9 to 10 hours of sleep to function at my optimum level. If I don't get at least 7 hours, I get cranky and downright irritable. I often wondered if I could handle life as a religious when I was discerning. It smells of elderberries because I have [url="http://www.end-your-sleep-deprivation.com/delayed-sleep-phase-syndrome.html"]delayed sleep phase syndrome[/url] (circadian rhythm disorder) that causes me to fall asleep in the wee hours of the morning and sleep til almost noon (or after) most days. When I kept a full-time job, I had a lot of trouble adjusting my schedule to meet the needs of the hours I worked.

I have often complained to doctors about my problem. Each and every one of them looks at me like I have insomnia and prescribes sleeping pills. The thing is, I do not have trouble sleeping when I'm tired. It just seems like being tired comes later at night. Sleeping pills never have a permanent effect on me.
[/quote]

Although I prefer to stay up late, go to bed late and wake up late, I have found that once I am settled into a routine, my body adapts over time. A lot of our sleep patterns are simply habit and a little self indulgence. Will we feel tired if we don't get enough sleep? Sure. But being tired isn't the end of the world and it is also something we can offer up. If we try getting up early (even when we haven't slept well the night before, we will start to get tired earlier in the evening and eventually we will be so tired that we don't have problems falling asleep at all! Insomnia can also be a sympton of too much sleep.

It is a bit like jet lag, the secret is not to go to bed because one is feeling tired but to put up with being tired and staying awake until the regular bedtime in the new time zone. A few nights of following the routine will fix the body up quicker than trying to catch up on the missed sleep.


The Carmels I was in all got up at 5am to be in choir by 5.30am but that meant we had to have lights out by 10pm too. And of course, there were early nights on bath night and when one was sick or needed extra rest (the Prioress would usually offer this). The thing I missed most was waking up in the morning, turning over and going back to sleep! Getting out of bed as soon as the bell rings is real penance for me!

Edited January 14, 2012 by nunsense

[OnlySunshine]

[quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1326510253' post='2368699']
Although I prefer to stay up late, go to bed late and wake up late, I have found that once I am settled into a routine, my body adapts over time. A lot of our sleep patterns are simply habit and a little self indulgence. Will we feel tired if we don't get enough sleep? Sure. But being tired isn't the end of the world and it is also something we can offer up. If we try getting up early (even when we haven't slept well the night before, we will start to get tired earlier in the evening and eventually we will be so tired that we don't have problems falling asleep at all! Insomnia can also be a sympton of too much sleep.

It is a bit like jet lag, the secret is not to go to bed because one is feeling tired but to put up with being tired and staying awake until the regular bedtime in the new time zone. A few nights of following the routine will fix the body up quicker than trying to catch up on the missed sleep.


The Carmels I was in all got up at 5am to be in choir by 5.30am but that meant we had to have lights out by 10pm too. And of course, there were early nights on bath night and when one was sick or needed extra rest (the Prioress would usually offer this). The thing I missed most was waking up in the morning, turning over and gonig back to sleep! Getting out of bed as soon as the bell rings is real penance for me!
[/quote]

Well, my Nurse Practitioner helped me understand that it's more likely a problem with my circadian rhythm than typical habit. I have tried on numerous occasions to readjust my schedule to get to bed before midnight. It works for about a week and then I find myself laying in bed staring up at the ceiling for hours because my body just will not go into the sleep phase. It's very frustrating. I've tried just about everything there is -- warm milk, hot shower, exercising during the day, not eating late at night, etc.

Sufferers of depression are typically patients of the Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome.

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='MaterMisericordiae' timestamp='1326510479' post='2368702']
Well, my Nurse Practitioner helped me understand that it's more likely a problem with my circadian rhythm than typical habit. I have tried on numerous occasions to readjust my schedule to get to bed before midnight. It works for about a week and then I find myself laying in bed staring up at the ceiling for hours because my body just will not go into the sleep phase. It's very frustrating. I've tried just about everything there is -- warm milk, hot shower, exercising during the day, not eating late at night, etc.

Sufferers of depression are typically patients of the Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome.
[/quote]

Yes, sufferers of depression usually are affected by sleep disorders and/or eating disorders, that is why they are encouraged to stick to set routines insteading allowing their bodies to control them. If one gets up late, then one will find it harder to sleep if they go to bed at a reasonable time, so they stay up later and then are too tired to wake up at a regular time the next time. The problem becomes self-perpetuating. It is much better for a depressed person to try to stick to a routine of getting up early every day, even if this causes some tiredness in the beginning. Eventually the body will be tired enough to fall asleep at a reasonable time instead of keeping one awake later. The secret is in getting up at the same time every day no matter how one slept the night before. Over time, the body will regulate itself, if it isn't indulged by sleeping in later and later and thereby making it impossible to fall asleep before the early hours of the morning.

Believe me, I have spent years working with depressed patients, and a regular routine is vital. It is also a good spiritual tool to discipline the mind and the body, thus controlling one's tendency to self-indulgence, which we all have. The more we give to our bodies the more they will want. It is a very subtle spiritual fight as well as a physical/mental/emotional one.

And if you are looking for a job, it would be good to start this habit now before you have to go to work and feel tired from not getting sleep and fall asleep at work. If you put in the effort now, you could have your circadian rhythms adjusted before you actually have to start work.

Some practical things to help get up in the morning... leave your curtains/blinds open so that the sun will help to wake you up (works best in summer when sunrise is early). Get up as soon as the alarm goes off even if it hurts (and I know this from personal experience). Once you are up, head straight into the shower or go for a walk or do something active to get your body to wake up all the way. Don't take a nap during the day unless it is a short power nap and not a long, deep one because then you won't be able to sleep when you go to bed. The thing is to get control over your body because it will also give you more control over your mind and emotions and help with symptoms of depression.

[Strictlyinkblot]

The horarium is certainly challenging but I suppose like any other monastic lifestyle you would get used to it after a while. When I did my live in I had to be up at 05:30. Lights out by 22:00, but to be honest I was usually asleep in bed straight after Compline. I had one early night, in bed by 20:30 and I never even heard the bell for Compline. I didn't find it all that hard to get up in the morning though, which is surprising for me.

[Lil'Nun]

Ummm. No breakfast? Going from 6 in the evening until lunch the next day without food and getting up at 4.30 . I don't think I could do it for years on end. On just two meals a day I would eventually need more sleep.

[beatitude]

I hadn't picked up on the absence of breakfast. I suppose it's because they have their lunch unusually early. In my experience monastic lunches are quite substantial (which was a penance for me when I stayed in the enclosure, as I am used to eating my main meal at night and I could never work up enough appetite for lunch. By the time evening came I was ravenous). I suppose your body would get used to the system eventually, but it would take some adjustment time.