the lumberjack Posted May 4, 2004 Author Share Posted May 4, 2004 [quote name='PhatPhred' date='May 4 2004, 12:24 PM'] I can't tell from what you've written if you agree or disagree with my above position. [/quote] I think that he does that on purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livin_the_MASS Posted May 4, 2004 Share Posted May 4, 2004 The Holy Father has never made it the norm for someone to marry and become a priest! Yes he has that authority to allow in certain instances if he wanted, but as you can see he has focused his authority on writting letters to make sure that it remains a celibate priesthood! Have you missed my posts? I know he has the authority, show me were he is saying it's ok, I've have never seen that from the Holy Father! He has done everything to keep the celibate priesthood. Please refer to my links. God Bless Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pontifex Posted May 4, 2004 Share Posted May 4, 2004 (edited) Peace to all those seeking the Truths of the Authentic Christian Faith, and peace to those who are blinded from seeing where that resides. May Christ enlighten you. The problem with using Scripture alone to talk about celibacy is the same problem that is faced with most issues in the development of doctrine. The teachings of the Authentic Christian Church are in a continual process of growth and development. Therefore to look at the actions and thoughts of our early Church family, conveyed in the scriptures, without looking at the lived experience of those who put those pages together is dangerous and ignorant. Celibacy is one of those issues that cannot be understood in its totality by looking at Scripture alone. In the Church's development it is becoming more clear that Celibacy is essential to priesthood and I predict that in the near future it will proclaimed as so. Celibacy is not an easy way to live, but it is a beautiful way to live. It certainly has nothing to do with the Scandals of a small percentage of Priests. By the way the numbers of scandals among protestant, married, ministers is just as high. The only difference is that it is not highlighted like the Authentic Christian Church. It is one of the downfalls of possessing the fullness of truth. Peace, Fr. Pontifex (Celibate and Proud) Edited May 4, 2004 by Pontifex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhatPhred Posted May 4, 2004 Share Posted May 4, 2004 [quote name='Jason' date='May 4 2004, 03:39 PM']Have you missed my posts?[/quote] No, your posts are very hard to miss. However, understanding what you are trying to say is a different matter altogether. All I said in my initial post to this thread was that the Holy Father has the authority, if he so chooses, to allow priests in the Latin Rite to marry. I quoted canon law number 1078 in support of my statement. Your barrage of posts after that, together with your PM to me, led me to believe that you had some trouble with my claim. In particular, you said in your post of May 4 2004, 11:48 AM that "the canon law you gave is conflicting or out of context!" I trust that I have demonstrated that my quotation of canon law number 1078 was indeed not taken out of context nor in conflict with any other provision of canon law. [quote name='Jason' date='May 4 2004, 03:39 PM']I know he has the authority, show me were he is saying it's ok, I've have never seen that from the Holy Father![/quote] [url="http://forums.catholic-convert.com/viewtopic.php?t=14872"]Here is a link[/url] to another Catholic board with a transcript of an interview with a married Latin Rite priest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livin_the_MASS Posted May 4, 2004 Share Posted May 4, 2004 I'm done, read Father's post above, The End! If your Catholic were not supposed to be talking or debating I mean! Read what Father Pontifex says, God Bless you Father Peace be to you always God Bless Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted May 4, 2004 Share Posted May 4, 2004 there's a whole eastern rite full of married Catholic priests who are in complete union with the Pope. the Latin Rite i believe MUST hold steadfast to the Celibate priesthood right now. it is the way our Rite has developed, it is our tradition, it is our heritage. This is our Catholic FLAVOR, and it is deliciously nutitritous. the Eastern Rite i believe must also hold fast to their encouragement of some celibate priests and their married priesthood as well, it is their tradition, their heritage, their Catholic FLAVOR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livin_the_MASS Posted May 4, 2004 Share Posted May 4, 2004 C and C gives your link a yellow! Search Results: Web Site Reviews: Evangelization: 1 item Defenders of the Catholic Faith (Review) Site: [url="http://www.catholic-convert.com/"]http://www.catholic-convert.com/[/url] [color=yellow](Yellow)[/color] Site Review for Defenders of the Catholic Faith [url="http://www.catholic-convert.com/"]http://www.catholic-convert.com/[/url] RATINGS Fidelity: CAUTION || Resources: Excellent || Useability: Excellent First Evaluated: 03/15/01 Last Updated: 06/04/03 DESCRIPTION Home page dedicated to explaining the Catholic Faith, especially to those of evangelical persuasion. The webmaster, Steve Ray, is a convert from evangelical Protestantism and the author of Crossing the Tiber,and other books. STRENGTHS · The Ray family's and other coversion stories (Resources) · Listen to Bible studies on-line (Resources) · A number of articles on theology and apologetics by Ray and others (Resources) · Lists of recommended books and periodicals (Resources) · Lots of links (Resources) · Book store which also carries audio and video tapes (Resources) · A message board answering apologetical questions (Resources) WEAKNESSES · A couple of recomended books are by Raymond Brown (Resources) Example(s) · Ray recommends a few books by Protestant authors (Resources) Example(s) CATEGORIES Catholicism > Faith > Apologetics Catholicism > Faith > Scripture Catholicism > Evangelization MORE INFO Steve Ray Steve Ray USA sray@rc.net -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- NB: All reviews are current as of the Evaluation or Update Date cited above. If you notice that a review contains information that is no longer accurate, please contact us and we will be happy to amend our review. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PedroX Posted May 4, 2004 Share Posted May 4, 2004 Phred, As usual your facility with canon law is impressive. You have either been exceptionally trained, or gifted. There are several interesting articles out there about how we have lost an aesthetic of celibacy. We have forgotten what we give up and what we gain in celibacy. The Orthodox, in particular, have done some great work on this as they have both celibate and married priesthood as the norm (but only celibate Episopi). Thanks again for your insights Phred. peace... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted May 4, 2004 Share Posted May 4, 2004 how did this turn into a debate between catholics? jason, no one is disagreeing w/ u. we all believe that priests should be celibate and that celibacy is a better way to serve the kingdom. we are just acknowledging the fact that exceptions have been made. hopefully that clears up whatever just happened in here.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhatPhred Posted May 4, 2004 Share Posted May 4, 2004 [quote name='PedroX' date='May 4 2004, 05:29 PM']As usual your facility with canon law is impressive. You have either been exceptionally trained, or gifted.[/quote] Thanks, PedroX. I've been studying canon law on my own for a few years now. I'm probably a bit weird in this, but I personally think that canon law is a fascinating subject, in that some of the Church's best minds have worked for decades to distill the essence of what it means to be Catholic into a collection of 1752 rules, the last of which ends with "and keeping in mind the salvation of souls, which in the Church must always be the supreme law." But I fear that I have let my desire to correct one small misstatement about the authority of the Pope to overshadow the larger discussion of this topic, which Fr. Pontifex and Aloysius have managed to stay focused on. Priestly celibacy is a deep and wonderful tradition of the Latin Rite that must not be lost or diminished, just as the (mostly) married priesthood in the Eastern Rites must not be taken away. Thanks again, PedroX! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the lumberjack Posted May 4, 2004 Author Share Posted May 4, 2004 I'm glad I'm not the only one that noticed, phatcath... and Jason...you don't always have to demean other people's sources...especially if they're other brethren...or sistren...and they're good sources. whether or not a "rating" site gives them a yellow, green or plaid. thats just MY opinion though. and...thanks for clarifying this topic up for me guys....and gals...don't think I'd forget you...not that I know who is and isn't of the XX Chromosome types here. God bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katholikos Posted May 4, 2004 Share Posted May 4, 2004 [quote name='Jason' date='May 4 2004, 09:48 AM'] [b]Can. 277[/b] §1.[b] [u]Clerics are obliged to observe perfect and perpetual continence for the sake of the kingdom of heaven and therefore are bound to celibacy[/u] which is a special gift of God by which sacred ministers can adhere more easily to Christ with an undivided heart and are able to dedicate themselves more freely to the service of God and humanity.[/b] Perpetual means forever so either the canon law you gave is conflicting or out of context! PS Notice the word BOUND! [/quote] I don't think "perpetual" means 'forever' as it is used by the Church. It means until a lawful authority abrogates the commitment. Priests who are laicized are an example. 'Perpetual motion' means something that will keep moving until it's stopped by another force or obstacle. 'Perpetual blooming' refers to flowers that bloom only for a season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livin_the_MASS Posted May 4, 2004 Share Posted May 4, 2004 Yeah everybody, I know I'm stupid, happy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livin_the_MASS Posted May 4, 2004 Share Posted May 4, 2004 Somemoe info from me "stupid" Perpetual : lasting forever of for a long time continuing without interruption; constant Continence: self- resteraint, Self- resteraint in sexual activity Webster Dic. Signed Stupid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livin_the_MASS Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 [quote][b]1 Cor. 10: 23-24 "Everything is lawful", but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is lawful," but not everything builds up. No one should seek his own advantage, but that of his neighbor."[/b][/quote] It's like this, just because something is permitted to happen which is in the first place in the hands of Christ's Church, it's not up to us to sit and contemplate only the permitted. Big deal a couple of people got permission thats up to the Holy Father and Jesus Christ's Catholic Church. Just because somethings are lawful doesn't mean it is the best! The best is to imitate Jesus Christ and a Priest who is celibate imitates Christ to the fullest! Call me what you want, whatever. Pope John Paul II has done nothing BUT say celibate priests imitate Christ, they stand in "The Person of Christ". Why everyone wants to focus on whats lawful instead of whats benefical I'll never know? People have said on this thread in ways, that I have questioned the Pope? Nonsense, I Love JPII he has changed the Catholic Church in many ways that no other Pope has done in the History of the Chruch. That was done in a [b]beneficial[/b] way to the Church I look for what builds up the Church, just because something is lawful doesn't mean it BUILDS UP! Look at what is benefecial to the Catholic Church, God and the Vicar of Christ will take care of whats lawful. Anyway hope this clears up my point of view! God Bless the Roman Catholic Church, and JPII Mary pray for us St. Michael defend us God Bless Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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