Celibate Priests

[Livin_the_MASS]

[quote name='PhatPhred' date='May 4 2004, 10:28 AM'] The Holy See does have the ability to permit ordained men to marry per canon law number 1078 §2 1°:

[/quote]
Are we reading the same Canon Law? The ones I found promote Celibate Priests?!
And say that it is a perpetual on going thing, and that priests are bound to it, for the sake of the kingdom of heaven?!

[PedroX]

Flip,

The answer is no. Canon law requires a physical to ensure that you are fully, biologically a man.

peace...

[Livin_the_MASS]

:mad: This guy is cute!

[Quietfire]

Let me see if I got all of this (minus the heads smashing against the wall)

Priests are celebate out of love and discipline for heavenly gifts. Its a choice, not a doctrine or law.

I have a friend who is a deacon. I've seen him in 'the collar', but he is married. He distributes the eucharist.

can some explain (again, in simple plain english) without cutting and pasting (yeah, you gotta type it in your own words) and keeping the 'big' words to a minimum, what all the differences are.

I only request this for my own understanding. No papers, no book rights. Although I am considering throwing a pop quiz in at the end of the week! No seriously, I just wanna know.

PEACE

Edited May 4, 2004 by Quietfire

[the lumberjack]

THANK YOU PHATPHRED!

thats the stuff I'm talkin about.

so, while it is HIGHLY encouraged that priests be and remain celibate, it is not ABSOLUTELY necessary, right?

and those that are already married can also become priests...

through the different rites and what not...

praise'm!

God bless.

[Anna]

Quietfire, a deacon is not a priest.
A deacon cannot hear a sinner's confession and grant absolution; that must be done by a validly ordained priest.
A deacon cannot celebrate the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, though he can assist the validly ordained priest who is the celebrant.
A deacon cannot confect the Eucharist; he cannot call the Holy Spirit down upon the bread and wine, consecrating them into the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus Christ, though he can distribute the consecrated Hosts -- Holy Communion -- to the faithful.
A deacon can be married at the time of his ordination, but he may not ever marry afterward, even if he is widowed. He knows this and freely consents to it before being ordained.
It is a vow to God, and, like marriage itself, should not be entered into lightly.
A priest takes the Church as his bride. The faithful are like his children. If a priest should take a wife, wouldn't that be cheating on his "first spouse," the Church?

Pax Christi. <><

[PhatPhred]

[quote name='Jason' date='May 4 2004, 11:48 AM'][b]Can. 277[/b] §1.[b] [u]Clerics are obliged to observe perfect and perpetual continence for the sake of the kingdom of heaven and therefore are bound to celibacy[/u] which is a special gift of God by which sacred ministers can adhere more easily to Christ with an undivided heart and are able to dedicate themselves more freely to the service of God and humanity.[/b]

Perpetual means forever so either the canon law you gave is conflicting or out of context!

PS Notice the word BOUND![/quote]
Canon law does not contradict itself. However, understanding canon law is a lot more complicated than simple platitudes like "Perpetual means forever".

Do you acknowledge that there are currently married Latin Rite priests (who were former Anglican priests)? How do reconcile these married priests with your "perpetual means forever" interpretation of canon law number 277?

[PhatPhred]

[quote name='Jason' date='May 4 2004, 11:56 AM']Are we reading the same Canon Law?[/quote]
I get mine from this web site:

[url="http://www.intratext.com/IXT/ENG0017/_INDEX.HTM"]http://www.intratext.com/IXT/ENG0017/_INDEX.HTM[/url]

You can look up canon law number 1078 yourself if you don't believe me.

[Livin_the_MASS]

[quote name='PhatPhred' date='May 4 2004, 12:22 PM'] Canon law does not contradict itself. However, understanding canon law is a lot more complicated than simple platitudes like "Perpetual means forever".

Do you acknowledge that there are currently married Latin Rite priests (who were former Anglican priests)? How do reconcile these married priests with your "perpetual means forever" interpretation of canon law number 277? [/quote]
Those are not my words they are from canon law I told you what the word meant.

I don't know I guess ask Mother Church?

[Livin_the_MASS]

[quote][b]A priest takes the Church as his bride. The faithful are like his children. If a priest should take a wife, wouldn't that be cheating on his "first spouse," the Church?[/b][/quote]

I love you Anna!!

God Bless
Jason

[PhatPhred]

[quote name='Jason' date='May 4 2004, 01:30 PM']Those are not my words they are from canon law I told you what the word meant.

I don't know I guess ask Mother Church?[/quote]
I'm at a loss to understand why you are trying to make this so convoluted. The fact of the matter is that canon law number 277 is subject to the Pope, and not the other way around. And if the Pope chooses to grant dispensations from the good and worthy discipline of priestly celibacy in the Latin Rite, then it is not your job to wave canon law number 277 under his nose and accuse him of violating Canon Law.

Edited May 4, 2004 by PhatPhred

[Livin_the_MASS]

[quote name='PhatPhred' date='May 4 2004, 12:27 PM']I get mine from this web site:

[url="http://www.intratext.com/IXT/ENG0017/_INDEX.HTM"]http://www.intratext.com/IXT/ENG0017/_INDEX.HTM[/url]

You can look up canon law number 1078 yourself if you don't believe me.[/quote]
I go here for canon law # 277 [url="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__PY.HTM"]Cannon Law[/url]


This is on more information if you want it go here [url="http://vatican.mondosearch.com/cgi-bin/MsmFind.exe?GRAB_ID=60&EXTRA_ARG=GRAB_ID%3D62%26EXTRA_ARG%3D%26HOST_ID%3D42%26PAGE_ID%3D11607040&HOST_ID=42&PAGE_ID=6061056&MEDIA_TYPE=0&CFGNAME=MssFindEN.cfg&AGE_WGT=0&NO_DL=X&AND_ON=Y&DE=X&ES=X&FR=X&IT=X&PT=X&EN=X&QUERY_ENCODING=ISO-8859-1&QUERY=Celibacy&CAT_KEY=-1&x=31&y=15"]Celibate Priesthood[/url]


[quote]CHAPTER II.

[b]DIRIMENT IMPEDIMENTS IN GENERAL[/b]

[b]Can.  1073 A diriment impediment renders a person unqualified to contract marriage validly.[/b]

Can.  1074 An impediment which can be proven in the external forum is considered to be public; otherwise it is occult.

Can.  1075 §1. It is only for the supreme authority of the Church to declare authentically when divine law prohibits or nullifies marriage.

§2. Only the supreme authority has the right to establish other impediments for the baptized.

Can.  1076 A custom which introduces a new impediment or is contrary to existing impediments is reprobated.

Can.  1077 §1. In a special case, the local ordinary can prohibit marriage for his own subjects residing anywhere and for all actually present in his own territory but only for a time, for a grave cause, and for as long as the cause continues.

§2. Only the supreme authority of the Church can add a nullifying clause to a prohibition.[/quote]

This has to do with someone getting married! Not a priest being able to marry read the title and the first line!


God Bless
Jason

[Livin_the_MASS]

[quote name='PhatPhred' date='May 4 2004, 01:37 PM'] I'm at a loss to understand why you are trying to make this so convoluted.  The fact of the matter is that canon law number 277 is subject to the Pope, and not the other way around.  And if the Pope chooses to grant dispensations from the good and worthy discipline of priestly celibacy in the Latin Rite, then it is not your job to wave canon law number 277 under his nose and accuse him of violating Canon Law. [/quote]
[b]Cleric: A member of the Clergy[/b]

Look it up in the Webster Dic.? So the statement about just being adressed to the Pope is wrong the title of the Chapter is towards Clerics, "Members of the Clergy"

Now that we have that striaght, I never claim any power This is Christ's Catholic Church, you can go to my links the Holy Father is for celibacy Saint Mother Thersa is as well, are you going to disagree with a saint?

Anyway Peace brother
God Bless
Jason

[Livin_the_MASS]

[quote][b][u]As the Holy Father, Pope John Paul II, put it, the true meaning of priestly celibacy is «profoundly connected with ordination whereby a man takes on the likeness of Jesus Christ»,[/u] the true and only Saviour of humanity. By thus being connected with the person of Jesus Christ, priestly celibacy ceases to be a power for salvation independent of the only Saviour of mankind. It is no longer a merely negative act of self-denial; rather it is an act of self-giving to and in union with Christ.[/b][/quote]

Long Live JPII we love you!

[PhatPhred]

[quote name='Jason' date='May 4 2004, 02:48 PM']I go here for canon law # 277   [url="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__PY.HTM"]Cannon Law[/url][/quote]
Well, at least we are reading the same canon law!

My position is, and always has been, that the Pope has the legitimate authority to dispense from the good and worthy discipline of priestly celibacy in the Latin Rite. The original part of canon law that I quoted, canon law number 1078, was one aspect of this papal authority.

I can't tell from what you've written if you agree or disagree with my above position.

The Pope has currently exercised this authority to:[list]
[*]Allow married men to become priests in the Latin Rite.
[*]Allow laicized Latin Rite priests to marry in the Catholic Church.
[/list]
My recollection is that the Pope has also recently allowed a widowed deacon to remarry and remain an active deacon, but I don't have the ability to check this at the moment.