Martial Arts/combat/fighting Sports

[DMcB]

I'm curious how you all feel about putting kids into martial arts, boxing, mma, wrestling. (Assuming the child is likely to be mature enough to handle the emotional, mental and physical stress of these activities, as well as the responsibility that goes along with the skill set - which to me is likely to be at least 5 yrs old.)

I am not looking for objections based on potential for physical injury, but rather from a Catholic standpoint. As a father, I have a feeling these decisions will be in my future.

(ETA: many of these activities are severely modified for young children. So while it may seem negligent to put 5-10 year olds in such activities, a parent can easily find programs appropriate for these ages: protective gear, restrained contact or working with techniques only as opposed to working against an opponent. Assuming, of course, one finds this stuff appropriate for any age level.)

Edited January 8, 2012 by DMcB

[MithLuin]

I must admit the '5 year old' comment made me raise an eyebrow. Part of me wonders why you would want to start something like that so young? But, of course, they have soccer and baseball for that age group and (as you say) it's a heavily-modified version of the sport that is age-appropriate. So, should you find something for *wince* a 5 year old, I suppose it won't be as bad as I'm picturing. Not sure I'd see the benefit.

Now, if you were considering a middle school age student, that would feel more normal to me - kids this age often branch out into more activities, some quite unique and diverse, so I could at least understand some form of martial arts being put on the table for, say, the 11+ age group. Depending upon what martial art you are talking about, there are built-in age limits established by the federations, so a very young child would not be allowed to participate, anyway - moot point.

But again, forget the ages, now back to the activities. I'm going to separate wrestling and boxing from MMA and other marial arts. Both wrestling and boxing teach a young person how to behave in a (highly controlled) fight. There is some maturity involved, in that they have to know there is a 'time and a place' for what they learn at practice...and that's not beating up kids at school or younger siblings. But assuming they have some maturity, then it can be a lot of fun and something they get a lot out of. I don't really know any boxers; many of my male relatives were wrestlers. If there is concern with the level of 'contact' (or if a kid is injury prone), maybe fencing would be a better option.

Now, on to martial arts. Similar to wrestling and boxing, you're learning some practical self-defense stuff, and it has to be handled respectfully, not used to beat people up. Where the concern of Catholic parents usually comes in is that many styles of martial arts have their origins in the far East, and thus are intrinsically tied to the cultures of Japan, Korea or China. With that comes the traditional religions of these places - Buddhism, Shinto, etc. Not Christianity. So, depending upon how the instruction is offered, it can have strong ties to another religious tradition. Perhaps that is [i]not[/i] something a parent wants to involve a young child in. Visiting the class or dojo in advance and observing a class before signing your kid up is always a good idea, and using prudence. Some classes (especially if its designed explicitly for little ones) would have few if any recognizable traces of this left, so it may be a moot point. But it's something to be aware of.

As an example, I've practiced kendo (just for a little over a year), and there is an emphasis on all the bowing...including to the front of the room (not just each other, the teachers, etc.) In a tournament in America, the only thing that is going to be put in the front of the room to bow to would be an American flag, and the command is literally to bow 'to the front.' In Japan....there could be a Shinto shrine in the front, and you would basically be expected to bow to idols (which is a mite problematic for a Christian!)

Of course, finding instructors in European swordwork that is comparable to Japanese kendo or Korean kumdo is not exactly easy!

[Amppax]

[quote name='DMcB' timestamp='1325982347' post='2364680']
I'm curious how you all feel about putting kids into martial arts, boxing, mma, wrestling. (Assuming the child is likely to be mature enough to handle the emotional, mental and physical stress of these activities, as well as the responsibility that goes along with the skill set - which to me is likely to be at least 5 yrs old.)

I am not looking for objections based on potential for physical injury, but rather from a Catholic standpoint. As a father, I have a feeling these decisions will be in my future.

(ETA: many of these activities are severely modified for young children. So while it may seem negligent to put 5-10 year olds in such activities, a parent can easily find programs appropriate for these ages: protective gear, restrained contact or working with techniques only as opposed to working against an opponent. Assuming, of course, one finds this stuff appropriate for any age level.)
[/quote]

Nihil might be the person to ask about this type of thing, he's a black belt in karate.

[cmotherofpirl]

My daughter was a world class Tang Soo Do champion as a teenager. She learned discipline, respect, hard work, perserverance, and patience. I highly recommend it. She had a moment of silence in the dojo to quiet herself, but that was the extent of any form of meditation.

[dUSt]

My son was in Jiu Jitsu when he was 5. At that age, the focus is on discipline, manners, respect, and techniques of basic moves. The discipline aspect is what impressed me the most.

My son is very small though, so every time he practiced moves and grappled, he'd be paired up with the girls instead of the boys, and they were still bigger than him. haha. It lasted almost as long as his baseball career, which was one season.

[MIKolbe]

I don't know karate, but I know CA-RAY-ZEE

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1326139834' post='2365793']
My son was in Jiu Jitsu when he was 5. At that age, the focus is on discipline, manners, respect, and techniques of basic moves. The discipline aspect is what impressed me the most.

My son is very small though, so every time he practiced moves and grappled, he'd be paired up with the girls instead of the boys, and they were still bigger than him. haha. It lasted almost as long as his baseball career, which was one season.
[/quote]

haha... yeah. My sons have been in taekwondo for years. My older son (now 13) is a junior black belt, and my younger son, is really just getting going. For my older son, who is small for his age, it's been a good thing-- building confidence, respect, perseverance, etc. They spar against other kids at the same level (from their studio). They have opportunities to compete against other studios, but my ds isn't interested (and neither are we, honestly). No spiritual stuff involved.

[Papist]

Can't you just teach your kids to run fast?

[Socrates]

Nothing wrong with teaching kids martial arts, boxing, wrestling etc.

The Church has always recognized the right to legitimate self defense, and practice of the martial arts contains the benefits of discipline, respect, etc. mentioned by others.

I think there can be moral issues with professional boxing and MMA, where you beat the croutons out of the other guy for sport, but for sparring and self-defense purposes, there's no problem. Most martial arts schools teach that physical violence should be used only as a last resort.

I'd recommend Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, which I'd like to get back into once I get my act together.

Edited January 11, 2012 by Socrates

[arfink]

MMA like what you see on TV is going to be worlds apart from anything you'd put your kids through. That goes beyond skill-building, training, and discipline and into the world of professional fighting. I wouldn't be worried about any studio somehow making your kid do that, even for older kids.

[DMcB]

Thanks, All, for the responses.

[dUSt]

There are many different forms of martial arts as well, so you could always put your kids in a form that was not so contact oriented.

Jiu Jitsu, muay Thai, kickboxing, karate, judo, etc. Some have more emphasis on striking, and others are more emphasis on wrestling, or self defense techniques.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='DMcB' timestamp='1325982347' post='2364680']
I'm curious how you all feel about putting kids into martial arts, boxing, mma, wrestling. (Assuming the child is likely to be mature enough to handle the emotional, mental and physical stress of these activities, as well as the responsibility that goes along with the skill set - which to me is likely to be at least 5 yrs old.)

I am not looking for objections based on potential for physical injury, but rather from a Catholic standpoint. As a father, I have a feeling these decisions will be in my future.

(ETA: many of these activities are severely modified for young children. So while it may seem negligent to put 5-10 year olds in such activities, a parent can easily find programs appropriate for these ages: protective gear, restrained contact or working with techniques only as opposed to working against an opponent. Assuming, of course, one finds this stuff appropriate for any age level.)
[/quote]
My son is still a toddler but I've thought about this a little bit and my opinion is that knowing how to fight is a pretty good practical skill for a man to have. Looking back on my boyhood I think my interest in fighting and martial arts came from noble desires and was a good thing. (For example, fantasies of heroism, defending people, and kicking arse against forces of evil such as the school bully.) I plan on waiting until my son voices his own interest in fighting but I think it will be razzle dazzle. If this is at odds with Catholicism than how does one explain the tradition of knights and Catholic warriors?

[Socrates]

[quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1326387549' post='2367662']
There are many different forms of martial arts as well, so you could always put your kids in a form that was not so contact oriented.
[/quote]
You mean stuff like Jedi telekinesis?

[DMcB]

Laudate - Funny you mention the school bully. Through the years, I've had several students (mid school and high school) that have trained in one aspect or another of "fighting." Many of these kids had reputations of sticking up for weaker/out numbered kids and taking on the noble fight.

At the end of the day, I find these activities useful for all the reasons mentioned above as well as raising a child that understands the consequences of physical contact - people get hurt and hurting people (or getting hurt) can have serious consequences. Rough housing certainly has its time and place in a youngster's life, but having worked with kids for some time now, many have little understanding or respect for how their actions can alter a life.

From personal experience, wrestling in high school was very humbling. I was a standout football player, had several years of martial arts, and was known to win most of the fights that came my way, but when it came to wrestling, I was dominated nearly every match - I thought I could get on the mat and use strength and toughness to win, but never cared to actually learn how to wrestle. Again, this was a humbling (and valuable) lesson.