stevil Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 [quote name='Ice_nine' timestamp='1326157493' post='2366032'] Good for you. Unfortunately I and many others agree this stance is unsubstantiated bs. So now what happens? Why should I have to concede to this stance? This is where you contradict yourself. You are, in effect, trying to push this philosophy onto others. That's dandy and all but when you tell others that they are "pushing their beliefs onto others" understand that you're doing the same. [/quote] I don't contradict myself, I feel the issue is that you are misunderstanding what I am saying. I am not pushing anything onto anybody, I am discussing, trying to influence. I do not have a gun against your head. With regards to law, I see it as affecting the people that are involved (the sick patient) not affecting the people (Christians like yourself) who don't want the people involved to have choices. You are certainly free to preach that euthanasia is a sin, you are free to try and spread this message and convince those that are dying that they ought to suffer rather than to chose a compassionate end. [quote name='Ice_nine' timestamp='1326157493' post='2366032'] You have a screwy idea of what rights are. But do tell me what [i]does[/i] create rights? [/quote] I presume that you think your god creates rights. I have posited that the nature of our Universe with the Physical Laws constraining what can physically be done, this constraint defines Physical Rights. It is an amoral, unintelligent rule definer. Our government then defines Legal Rights by passing laws which put restrictions on Physical Rights. The government obviously cannot create rights beyond what is available via Physical Rights e.g. the government cannot pass a law making it legal to go faster than the speed of light. However there is another undocumented layer of rights that complicates this. That is what could be termed as Natural Rights. Society as a whole define this based on our lifestyles, cultural influences, education, evolved traditions, and necessity for survival etc. If a government attempts to violate some of these fundamental Natural Rights then society members will seek to oppose by force. These Natural Rights are still just a subset of Physical Rights. [quote name='Ice_nine' timestamp='1326157493' post='2366032'] You're trying to tell me how to practice my religion. It doesn't work like that. [/quote] Does your religion define that society should be forced to comply to all Christian morals via law? Is this what your religious leaders state? I thought the bible states that you should obey the law. Your morality basis, isn't that a guide for yourself, on how you should behave in order to please your god? Doesn't your god want people to have freewill, to chose between sin or no sin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeetergirl291 Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 [quote name='stevil' timestamp='1325998600' post='2364849'] Making Euthanasia against the law, you are forcing your beliefs onto others. [/quote] you're right. I'm going to go now. I have an e-mail to write to our government saying that we should legalize murder and all forms of abortion. We should also let out the mass-murderers out of prison, because we are forcing our religion upon them by not letting them kill us.... does that make any sense to you?? [color="#272727"][/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevil Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 [quote name='Skeetergirl291' timestamp='1326215455' post='2366424'] you're right. I'm going to go now. I have an e-mail to write to our government saying that we should legalize murder and all forms of abortion. We should also let out the mass-murderers out of prison, because we are forcing our religion upon them by not letting them kill us.... does that make any sense to you?? [color=#272727] [/color] [/quote] Seems a bit underkill. We should probably give the mass-murders the death sentence don't you think? But really, I was discussing in terms of the OP. Not trying to spark you into action to volley government, although it will be great once governments finally shed the last piece of Religious influence and allow Euthanasia, Stem Cell Research and Gay marriage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeetergirl291 Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 [quote name='stevil' timestamp='1326218960' post='2366446'] We should probably give the mass-murders the death sentence don't you think? [/quote] uhh... no. I [i]don't [/i]think so. Human beings have little somethings called vunerabilities. And unless they've aquired super powers, I can think of no possible way for someone to bend bars and escape prison. Can you? Even if they're threatening to kill other inmates, or whatever, then put them in their own cell! They may [i]convert[/i] and help other inmates to [i]convert[/i]. "So we release them because they [i]say[/i] that they're all good, and then they go out and kill again. Now what?" you may ask. My answer: [i]Don't Let Them Out! [/i]Keep them in their little cell for the rest of their life, like I said, they could convert and repent, but that doesn't mean they have to be let out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevil Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 [quote name='Skeetergirl291' timestamp='1326222988' post='2366460'] uhh... no. I [i]don't [/i]think so. Human beings have little somethings called vunerabilities. And unless they've aquired super powers, I can think of no possible way for someone to bend bars and escape prison. Can you? Even if they're threatening to kill other inmates, or whatever, then put them in their own cell! They may [i]convert[/i] and help other inmates to [i]convert[/i]. "So we release them because they [i]say[/i] that they're all good, and then they go out and kill again. Now what?" you may ask. My answer: [i]Don't Let Them Out! [/i]Keep them in their little cell for the rest of their life, like I said, they could convert and repent, but that doesn't mean they have to be let out. [/quote] Yeah, that is fine, either or, as long as they are not a danger to society. In China, they used to not undergo a lengthy expensive trial. They would shoot them and sent a bill for the bullet to the next of kin. The money saved could then go towards the benefit of society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeetergirl291 Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 [quote name='stevil' timestamp='1326228039' post='2366488'] In China, they used to not undergo a lengthy expensive trial. They would shoot them and sent a bill for the bullet to the next of kin. The money saved could then go towards the benefit of society. [/quote] ok, one: we are not China. And, two: [i]Wow! [/i]That is shallow! Imagine that, "Dear Mrs. ___. Your son was accused of a crime, so, to save money, we didn't really do alot of investigation to see if he really [i]is[/i] the murderer. But we believe he was. But maybe not. Anyway, then we shot him. You owe us $___. Have a nice day!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Yes, and the money saved could be used to euthanize those undesirables. You know those people that are depressed and don't care about life. Them peoples are a drag and the best solution to help them is to allow them to kill themselves. Forget about all the expensive therapy and counseling, just go behind the hospital and put a bullet in their head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevil Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 [quote name='Skeetergirl291' timestamp='1326228856' post='2366494'] ok, one: we are not China. And, two: [i]Wow! [/i]That is shallow! Imagine that, "Dear Mrs. ___. Your son was accused of a crime, so, to save money, we didn't really do alot of investigation to see if he really [i]is[/i] the murderer. But we believe he was. But maybe not. Anyway, then we shot him. You owe us $___. Have a nice day!" [/quote] That could be taking it too far. Im not a proponent of Chinese law, but neither am I a proponent of US law. US law is too slow, cumbersome and expensive. Maybe there is an in between. Anyway, this thread is about Euthanasia.[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1326229016' post='2366495'] Yes, and the money saved could be used to euthanize those undesirables. You know those people that are depressed and don't care about life. Them peoples are a drag and the best solution to help them is to allow them to kill themselves. Forget about all the expensive therapy and counseling, just go behind the hospital and put a bullet in their head. [/quote] There would need to be some rules around euthanasia of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 [quote name='stevil' timestamp='1326231288' post='2366509'] There would need to be some rules around euthanasia of course. [/quote] Hey, don't force your religion on me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeetergirl291 Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 [quote name='Papist' timestamp='1326231827' post='2366511'] Hey, don't force your religion on me! [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevil Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 [quote name='Papist' timestamp='1326231827' post='2366511'] Hey, don't force your religion on me! [/quote] Maybe an open minded society could come up with the rules rather than a religion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeetergirl291 Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) [quote name='stevil' timestamp='1326232719' post='2366520'] Maybe an open minded society could come up with the rules rather than a religion? [/quote] but didn't you, yourself, say: [quote name='stevil' timestamp='1325998600' post='2364849'] [by] Making Euthanasia against the law, you are forcing your beliefs onto others. There are many people that don't believe a compassionate end to suffering requested by the patient is a sin, especially an athiest. What value does it add to society to enforce this restriction into law? What business is it of yours if someone acts to end their own suffering? [/quote] so aren't you contradicting yourself? Edited January 10, 2012 by Skeetergirl291 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevil Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Skeetergirl291' timestamp='1326235126' post='2366533'] so aren't you contradicting yourself? [/quote] Not contradicting at all. There are scenarios where people might choose to abuse euthanasia and kill someone for inheritance (for example). Society does need some rules. What I am stating is that we could let society decide based on reason with regards to what makes a functional society. If laws seem unnecessary for functioning society then allow people to make their own decisions. Edited January 10, 2012 by stevil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeetergirl291 Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 oh, ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 [quote name='stevil' timestamp='1326232719' post='2366520'] Maybe an open minded society could come up with the rules rather than a religion? [/quote] A society that legalizes suicide has their mind so open that their brains fell out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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