The Draft

[Iacobus]

I have been hearing rumors and stuff that there is a highly possible draft sometime next srping. It has started to show up in the Chicago reputable papers and stuff.

[quote]The Draft*

$28 million has been added to the 2004 Selective Service System (SSS) budget to prepare for a military draft that could start as early as June 15, 2005. SSS must report to Bush on March 31, 2005 that the system, which has lain dormant for decades, is ready for activation. Please see website: [url="http://www.sss.gov/perfplan_fy2004.html"]http://www.sss.gov/perfplan_fy2004.html[/url] to view the SSS Annual Performance Plan - Fiscal Year 2004.

The Pentagon has quietly begun a public campaign to fill all 10,350 draft board positions and 11,070 appeals board slots nationwide.. Though this is an unpopular election year topic, military experts and influential members of Congress are suggesting that if Rumsfeld's prediction of a "long, hard slog" in Iraq and Afghanistan [and a permanent state of war on "terrorism"] proves accurate, the U.S. may have no choice but to draft.

[url="http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5146.htm"]http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5146.htm[/url]

Congress brought twin bills, S. 89 and H.R. 163 forward this year, entitled the Universal National Service Act of 2003, "To provide for the common defense by requiring that all young persons [age 18--26] in the United States, including women, perform a period of military service or a period of civilian service in furtherance of the national defense and homeland security, and for other purposes." These active bills currently sit in the Committee on Armed Services.

Dodging the draft will be more difficult than those from the Vietnam era remember. College and Canada will not be options. In December 2001, Canada and the US signed a "Smart Border Declaration," which could be used to keep would-be draft dodgers in. Signed by Canada's Minister of Foreign Affairs, John Manley, and US Homeland Security Director, Gov. Tom Ridge, the declaration involves a 30-point plan which implements, among other things, a "pre-clearance agreement" of people entering and departing each country. Reforms aimed at making the draft more equitable along gender and class lines also eliminates higher education as a shelter. Underclassmen would only be able to postpone service until the end of their cur-rent semester. Seniors would have until the end of the academic year.
[/quote]

[BeenaBobba]

[quote name='Iacobus' date='May 3 2004, 11:15 AM'] I have been hearing rumors and stuff that there is a highly possible draft sometime next srping. It has started to show up in the Chicago reputable papers and stuff.

[/quote]
Oh, man, I hope not. I really, really hope not. I wonder if they'd draft women, too. To that, I [b]desperately[/b] hope not. I'm nervous because my brother is 19-years-old.

God bless,

Jennifer

[homeschoolmom]

When I was in college, we were all worried about rumors of a draft because of the Gulf War... no draft then...

[Iacobus]

I will be 18 in like 3 weeks and my cosuin is 21 and my dad got a objector during Nam so my family is really sensitive at seeing these things when they pop up. The plan was for me, if need be, to get a student deferment or go to school and live with the family in Canada but that doesn't look like an option.

[MC Just]

I aint going anywhere. They don't own me, and I aint fighting for a country that has murdered about 50 million babies.

[Iacobus]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' date='May 3 2004, 10:21 AM'] When I was in college, we were all worried about rumors of a draft because of the Gulf War... no draft then... [/quote]
I don't really rember much from gulf war, I was only 5. But did they start moving everything around and stuff like this? And weren't you operting under the Powell Doctrine more so, go in get it and leave, no long term wars like we have now under the Bush Doctrine?

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Iacobus' date='May 3 2004, 09:24 AM'] I don't really rember much from gulf war, I was only 5. But did they start moving everything around and stuff like this? And weren't you operting under the Powell Doctrine more so, go in get it and leave, no long term wars like we have now under the Bush Doctrine? [/quote]
Well, frankly, I don't remember too well, either... You're probably right about the get in and get out... People did get called up. I had several friends in the reserves who had to leave school and go. People who only joined the reserves to help them pay for college got a big ol' shockeroo... But I never knew a civilian who had to go. I know you are kinda worried about this-- and rightly so, since you are right there in age. Pray about it, but don't worry about it. I really don't think it will effect you.

[BeenaBobba]

[quote name='Iacobus' date='May 3 2004, 11:22 AM'] I will be 18 in like 3 weeks and my cosuin is 21 and my dad got a objector during Nam so my family is really sensitive at seeing these things when they pop up. The plan was for me, if need be, to get a student deferment or go to school and live with the family in Canada but that doesn't look like an option. [/quote]
I wonder if Mexico could be an option.

God bless,

Jennifer

[Iacobus]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' date='May 3 2004, 10:32 AM'] Well, frankly, I don't remember too well, either... You're probably right about the get in and get out... People did get called up. I had several friends in the reserves who had to leave school and go. People who only joined the reserves to help them pay for college got a big ol' shockeroo... But I never knew a civilian who had to go. I know you are kinda worried about this-- and rightly so, since you are right there in age. Pray about it, but don't worry about it. I really don't think it will effect you. [/quote]
I know a Medic who got called up for both of them. The reason I asked about Bush and Powell Doctrines, was we just covered them a bit in APUSH.

[quote]Powell Doctrine 1990

WHAT IT IS:

The Powell Doctrine states that military force should only be used to win an overwhelming victory in a short period of time.

BACKGROUND

Shaken by the disaster of the Vietnam War, Colin Powell, who served as chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff during the administration of George H.W. Bush, was determined never to commit U.S. troops to another war unless all-out victory was the goal. Like his colleague, Caspar Weinberger, he opposed the use of force unless American vital interests were involved. In the weeks following Iraq’s attack on Kuwait, Powell waffled when asked if the United States should try to force Saddam Hussein to withdraw. President Bush alone decided to confront Saddam, announcing his policy during a televised press conference, to the astonishment of Colin Powell, who had not been informed in advance. [/quote]


[quote]Bush Doctrine 2001

WHAT IT IS:

The Bush Doctrine declares it is the policy of the United States government to go after all terrorists with a global reach and the states which harbor them.

BACKGROUND:

After the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon on September 11, 2001, President Bush addressed a joint session of Congress. During his speech he committed the United States to a global war on terrorism. Using moralistic language, he declared that the countries of the world had to decide if they were for us or the terrorists. [/quote]


The Bush doctrine doesn't seem too rooted in short termness. BTW this is from [url="http://www.historynewsnetwork.org/articles/article.html?id=377&v=p"]http://www.historynewsnetwork.org/articles...html?id=377&v=p[/url]

[JP2Iloveyou]

I must confess, I really must bite my tongue in what I want to say to some of you. Wake up people! Don't you realize how fortunate you are to live in this great country? Freedom is not free! Sometimes it has to be defended. Yes, that might mean leaving your little comfort zone, but whatif everyone took that attitude? Well, first of all, we might still be under British rule. Second, there might still be slavery here. Third, the Nazis would have taken over Europe. Fourth, Communism would have taken over Europe and the ultimate war between the Communists and the Nazis may have resulted in catastrophe. Fifth, Saddam Hussein would have taken over the middle-east. We have a duty to defend out country when she needs us. If I'm drafted, I will immediately go. No questions asked. In all honesty, if you hate this country so much, why don't you just leave? I hear Cuba is real nice this time of year. I'm sorry, but that's my two-cents worth.

[Brother Adam]

So much for biting your tongue eh?

One of the problems is where the leadership of this country has taken us. Yes we are not communist and have some freedom of religion. But our country advocates the murder of children, the freedom of sexual degragation and is readily increasing the line between rich and poor. According to one Harvard Univ. prof. 28 or 30 major world civilizations to disappear in the history of the world started to disappear with our current moral and economic climate.

If it came down to it, if my government drafted me, I would go. God places figures of government authority in place for a reason. However, I have deep concerns about what the government is currently doing and just what I would be fighting for. The wars today are much different than the Revolutionary or even civil wars.

[Iacobus]

I have deep worries about the justness of some of these wars. I object to them as a Christian paficist. Freedom does need to be defended but how does does it always need us to jump to war? War is a horrid thing and we need to sit and think about it before invading and taking agressive actions. I don't trust my current leadership to taken a slow and peaceful wise solution to problems. I won't give my life for a nation in an unjust unholy war.

"War is never just another means that one can choose to employ for settling differences between nations."

[Iacobus]

[quote name='JP2Iloveyou' date='May 3 2004, 10:43 AM'] In all honesty, if you hate this country so much, why don't you just leave?  I hear Cuba is real nice this time of year.  I'm sorry, but that's my two-cents worth. [/quote]
JP2, Cuba is not as bad as you want to make it out to be. Granted it is a communist state and has many problems but you know what? The litercry rate in Cuba is HIGHER than the USA. The weather is good and tropic. We all want to see it return to normalicy and peace but capitilism isn't all that it is made up to be.

Why don't I leave? I don't leave becuase I love America and hate what it is. We need to be change and admit we make mistakes. You know what it is to admit errors and mistakes? Brave, and what is America but the home of the brave?

[quote]Fifth, Saddam Hussein would have taken over the middle-east. [/quote]
GROW rule 15 I belive. Never leave hanging points. What makes you think he would have? Look at how easy the US "conquered" Iraq. He was going to use that army to take on IDF? Hussien was a mad man. He wanted to rule the world, or what not. So did Hitler. But you know Hitler had an army that the Brits and the France couldn't stop. The Irealis could have stoped the Iraqi Army. So justify your point.

[quote]
Second, there might still be slavery here.[/quote]
You know the quote by Abe Lincoln "If I can save the union and free all of the slaves I would do it, if I could do it and free none of the slaves I would do that, if I could free some of the slaves and save the union I will do that. I shall save the union." The war was to hold the union together, not free the slaves. "Freeing" (we didn't during the war the EP freed them only in the CSA which wasn't really listening to the USA at the time) the slaves was soly to keep England out of the war. It was a diplo move.

If the year was 1942 and I was drafted I would serve. That was a just war and it was clear that it was. Iraq is a little less clear.

[quote]
Fourth, Communism would have taken over Europe and the ultimate war between the Communists and the Nazis may have resulted in catastrophe.[/quote]

If the Nazis were still in power in Europe due to USA inaction, there would have been no Communism in Europe. The Truman Doctrine got us in some really bad wars. Nam and Korea to name a few. Hundreds of thousands of mens lives cost.

[quote]first of all, we might still be under British rule[/quote]
And that is bad why? The American Patorits were spoiled brats and not heros. They revolted for some good reasons (quatering, jury trials, Navagtion Acts, etc) however on eof the main reasons was taxes. After Slautray Neglect ended with the Brits kicking the French out of the NA contionte after the 7 years war, taxs were imposed on the Americans. In fact these taxs were LESS than if the Americans had lived in England. Being under British rule wouldn't have chnaged us much and the Brits would have diposed of us anyhows after some time. It is costly to run a conlony.

I am sorry I feel like I attacked your post. I am an AP brat and it was lacking in justification on Hussien and the other points were kinda bad history.

[JP2Iloveyou]

no worries, I'm really pressed for time today, so I posted fast. I know, some of the points were shaky. I'm trying to outline the CCC by tomorrow and type two papers among some other things. Anyway, Hussein was a madman, but that was what was said about Hitler prior to WWII. The French didn't lift a finger to stop him until he was driving his tanks through downtown Paris.

I would like to see justification of there being a higher literacy rate in Cuba than in the U.S. It may be true, but that only speaks to the complete failure the public school system is in the U.S. I personally think the public school system is a joke in this country and if God blesses me with children, they will either attend an orthodox Catholic school or be home schooled for the very reason you stated.

Like you, I dislike many aspects of this country. I think our treatment of the poor and the unborn is atrocious. I think our moral and ethical values are one step above those of dogs and cats, to put it bluntly.

Also, you are quite correct in what you said about Abe Lincoln. Nevertheless, the end result of the Civil War was that slavery was ended. A case of God bringing good out of evil, perhaps.

I'm sorry, I'm just taking your points as I remember them because I don't have time to quote you. Anyway, you said that WWII was justified and the War in Iraq is a little less clear. Can you please explain that? Heither Hitler nor Hussein directly attacked the United States. Why was one justified and the other not?

Sorry this is quick, but I'm in a hurry.

[lil bull 04]

I don't really like the idea of the draft because there are people like me that got temporarily rejected from the military because of a condtion as minor as acne. I guess there are some reasons for that but I think they are stupid because ance has never stopped me from doing anything before. The excuse they used was that if I went backpacking or something my shoulders and back would be rubbed raw. I think that is the stupidest thing I've ever heard because I've done that several times hiking.