Disappointment In Discernment

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='JoyfulLife' timestamp='1325292274' post='2360216']
Wow. I hadn't thought of it like that before, about helping the family being more important that adoration, etc. What's the proper balance according to St. Josemaria?
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[quote name='Totus Tuus' timestamp='1325293038' post='2360228']
If you think I'm suggesting something other than balance, you misread what I said. My point is precisely that doing things that are outside of our vocation at the moment we are meant to be doing them causes a lack of balance. I never said that she should be at home cooking every single night. Everyone needs prayer time. But moms are certainly not called -under almost any circumstances- to pray as much as nuns. [i]that[/i] was my point.
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As you can see from JL's post quoted above yours, she also wanted to make sure that you meant balance. Sometimes a person can carry anything to extreme and think it is a good thing, but as Our Lord explained to St Martha, sometimes what seems like the right thing isn't the right thing (at least for someone else), so as long as we understand that, there's no problem. Someone might think a mother was being neglectful if she felt she just had to go off to Adoration at a particular time instead of making dinner one night... it would be good if we never judged each other of course, but it does happen, just look at St Martha... and she was a saint!

No offence intended.

[beatitude]

[quote name='JoyfulLife' timestamp='1325292274' post='2360216']
Wow. I hadn't thought of it like that before, about helping the family being more important that adoration, etc. What's the proper balance according to St. Josemaria?
[/quote]

It's not something you can work out mathematically. You just have to try and think as Jesus thought: he always did what was most needed at that point in time. He worked in the carpentry shop, spent time with his family, healed sick people, taught the faith in busy places, and withdrew into the wilderness to pray. It wasn't, "Which thing is most important overall, and how do I plan them on my calendar?" but, "What is needed now?" Perfect faithfulness to the present moment and the God we find there - that is prayer.

[Totus Tuus]

[quote name='beatitude' timestamp='1325293842' post='2360246']
It's not something you can work out mathematically. You just have to try and think as Jesus thought: he always did what was most needed at that point in time. He worked in the carpentry shop, spent time with his family, healed sick people, taught the faith in busy places, and withdrew into the wilderness to pray. It wasn't, "Which thing is most important overall, and how do I plan them on my calendar?" but, "What is needed now?" Perfect faithfulness to the present moment and the God we find there - that is prayer.
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This. I think the balance is different for every mom. It's not just the amount of children she has, but also her health and what she can handle that dictate what she does in her daily life.

[StClare_OraProNobis]

Since leaving the convent I feel like my prayer life has been stripped away from me. (I do still pray, but not like I was able to before.) I think this in one reason I can not imagine getting married. It seems like then I would have even less of a chance for prayer.

Thanks to all for your responses!

Edited December 31, 2011 by StClare_OraProNobis

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='StClare_OraProNobis' timestamp='1325294261' post='2360259']
Since leaving the convent I feel like my prayer life has been stripped away from me. (I do still pray, but not like I was able to before.) I think this in one reason I can not imagine getting married. It seems like then I would have even less of a chance for prayer.

Thanks to all for your responses!
[/quote]

I don't necessarily think that trying to make this decision right now is a good idea. Since you still have to process the grief and other feelings that are overwhelming you right now, leave all thoughts of possible life states to another time. This might be a time when you do need a lot of prayer to deal with what has happened, but there may come a time when you feel you are ready to interact more with others again and then marriage might actually seem appealing to you.

Just take it one step at a time. I know that I needed an intensive period of prayer recently, but after eight months of it, I got a job at a hostel for the elderly and really found myself enjoying all the interactions with staff and residents. I didn't feel the loss of prayer then because working was a type of prayer.

Be gentle with yourself right now.

[AccountDeleted]

I use the words 'right now' too much.

[MithLuin]

[quote name='StClare_OraProNobis' timestamp='1325294261' post='2360259'] Since leaving the convent I feel like my prayer life has been stripped away from me. (I do still pray, but not like I was able to before.) I think this in one reason I can not imagine getting married. It seems like then I would have even less of a chance for prayer. Thanks to all for your responses! [/quote]

This is very true. I mean no disrespect to the faithful Catholic moms out there, but it is really much harder to pray when you are caring for babies/toddlers every time you go to mass. Depending on how whiny/disruptive they are being, you could very well 'miss' the consecration! I'm not saying this is an every week occurrence, but I do think that single people sometimes take for granted their ability to go to mass and [i]just focus on the mass[/i]. And yes, you may find a way to work rosaries into your busy day, but you're not exactly going to sit down and recite morning and evening prayer if you're supposed to be feeding your kids at that time (which you are). So, your prayer life turns into much more of the 'popcorn' prayer variety, shooting off little prayers throughout your day when/where you have a chance to.

Likewise, going from religious life to single life, I could see how it would feel as though your days are just too hectic and 'busy' to squeeze all that prayer time in that you took for granted in the convent. And so, naturally...your prayer life changes. Different does not have to be less fruitful, though, so the goal is to find a 'way' that works for you, in this time and place in your life...even if you are still acutely longing for what you had before. In this way, you can transform your current life.

A slim little book I would recommend for you would be Br. Lawrence's [url=http://www.practicegodspresence.com/brotherlawrence/index.html]The Practice of the Presence of God[/url]. It's a very good reminder that 'true' prayer and doing mundane everyday tasks are by no means an either/or venture. Finding God while doing the dishes or driving to work happens too!

[Sarah147]

My RCIA instructor, an older woman that had 5 children and worked as a teacher in a Catholic high school....she said about bringing children to Mass, that you should wait until they are old enough to behave quietly in Church. So, I guess have hubby watch the children at home while you go to Mass, and then switch so he can go to Mass. Or have a relative or babysitter watch them at home.

[andibc]

[quote]Any else here experience a lot of disappointment[/quote]
Yes, thirty years ago [img]http://images.yuku.com/image/gif/b9d357ce413ce5d070e55aa99f28f218c2ec28c.gif[/img]
[quote]...if God does not want the highest level of intimacy possible with me.[/quote]
You cannot imagine the great joy and union with Him that He has planned for you in this life and for all eternity if you stay close to Him!!! Fr. Dubay spoke in his books and on his EWTN show about how we are all called to the heights of contemplative prayer and that he knows of many, many lay people who are in the sixth and seventh mansion. My own spiritual director once told me the same thing.

You have gotten so many lovely responses to your post. There will be sadness and it may come back every once in awhile, but that is just our nature resisting our call. Living a life devoted to Christ on your own is wonderful, just because of the unique challenges of loving Him without the constant support of a community. All people are called to daily prayer and Mass and adoration as often as possible. Don't let anyone discourage you from including those things in your life because they are what will bring you to that deep intimacy in Christ that both you and our Blessed Lord desire.

Throw yourself into whatever vocation you are called to, and if it is married life never for an instant deprive your children of knowing and loving our Lord. Pay no heed to those who tell you not to be a nun in the world. That's not what you will be doing by taking them to daily Mass and adoration. Yes, children can learn to sit quietly from a very young age. With God anything is possible. I see at least a dozen young mothers doing this daily right now and my own children went with me from infancy. If they are noisy, you take them out for a bit. They learn to sit quietly because they do that gradually at home when you pray part or all of the rosary with them. If they are especially disruptive, you leave the older ones in church and stand outside one of the windows to listen, going in for Communion. You can't imagine how terribly romantic that is until you've done it in the snow You will receive an abundance of actual grace for bringing your children to Mass and they will be consoled and taught by the Holy Spirit in their little souls even while you think they are just mindlessly staring at the stained glass windows.

If you are called to motherhood, you will know great consolation in getting up an hour before the children to say the office and meditate. You will also know dryness and disruptions in your prayer, as do those in religious life. When you are discouraged, you will know Christ's presence when you wake yet again to care for your baby or a sick child and you will offer up the fatigue for the religious that you know are up at the same time offering their prayers for the universal church and for you. You will live Matthew 25:31-46 [i]Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you...[/i]" and John 17 will be given to you[i] "And I have given them the glory you gave me, so that they may be one, as we are one, I in them and you in me, that they may be brought to perfection as one..."[/i] You'll learn to turn off the TV and limit phone time so that you have time for spiritual reading after the children are in bed. You will create your own rule and will faithfully follow it without support or encouragement from others because you will be as desperately in love with Jesus as you are right now. Your children will be your flowers to present to Him. They will help you with chores and you'll make use of the crockpot and simple meals so that you all can enjoy Mass, adoration, walks to enjoy God's glorious creation. It's all in how you think about it. They will think like you think.

I have a half dozen or more friends who longed to be a sister or a nun when they were younger. Some have stayed in the single life, more have become mothers. All have consecrated themselves through the de Montfort prayer (consecration means set apart for sacred purposes and is not limited to religious orders) or with the third orders they joined. Many of us have been blessed to see our children enter religious life and the priesthood. One such friend has seven children, three are nuns, one will soon be ordained and the other still has a few years left before ordination. If you are to have children, they will see your deep faith and passionate love of Christ and will want that for themselves.

And regardless of your vocation, or even if you are to be without a spiritual director for awhile, God will constantly provide for your spiritual needs. The Holy Spirit will form you, You will hear something in one of the readings or homily that teaches you just what you need to know to continue on your path to holiness. You'll stumble upon a religious book that will be just what you need to take you a step closer to Our Lord. When you go through very dark times, you'll pull out the writings of St. John of the Cross and you'll discover that you actually understand much of it.

If you haven't done so already, start a novena to recognize what direction our Lord wants you to now take. Set a rule for yourself- daily Mass as often as possible, weekly adoration and confession monthly or more often. Try to find a spiritual director and if you are not able to do so, continue reading the spiritual classics. If you haven't read St. John of the Cross yet, buy Fr. Dubay's book "Fire Within" and start reading at Chapter 3. (the first two chapters are biographies and are more appealing after you've read the book. You life will be on fire with love for God, so continue on your journey with confidence in his merciful love and the knowledge that your life will be filled with the adventure of intimately knowing, loving and serving Him.

[Sarah147]

andibc!!!! Wow! Very spiritual post and great advice! Please post more often.

Edited December 31, 2011 by JoyfulLife

[OnlySunshine]

[quote name='JoyfulLife' timestamp='1325351486' post='2360660']
My RCIA instructor, an older woman that had 5 children and worked as a teacher in a Catholic high school....she said about bringing children to Mass, that you should wait until they are old enough to behave quietly in Church. So, I guess have hubby watch the children at home while you go to Mass, and then switch so he can go to Mass. Or have a relative or babysitter watch them at home.
[/quote]

One of my CRHP sisters does this with her two children. One stays at home with the kids and the other goes to Mass and then they switch.

[Sarah147]

Yeah, I'm not sure what I would do, because that last post about the graces children receive by being in Mass moved me...

[Lilllabettt]

[quote name='StClare_OraProNobis' timestamp='1325226247' post='2359868']
Any else here experience a lot of disappointment when the results of your discernment were not what you had hoped for? Any advice for how to move on? In particular in my circumstance I was in the convent for nearly 2 years and then had to leave for health reasons and have been told clearly that I do not have a religious vocation. Makes me wonder for what purpose I am here at all if God does not want the highest level of intimacy possible with me.
[/quote]

So ... your experience sounds almost identical to mine - except I wasn't told I didn't have a vocation but "you're young, when your health gets better you'll have the chance to try again." At the time there was little hope of my health getting better. But lo and behold now it is and I have a lot of doubt about what to do. The door was left open a crack: do I push it open or pull it shut?

If you have certainty about what your calling is - or rather, what it isn't - then trust me that is something to be grateful for. A slammed door can be a mercy, even if it seems cruel on its face.

I would like to tell you that time heals all wounds - but that is in large part a load of garbage. Some memories will always be sad, some thing are too painful to every "get over."

What time does do is give us a new perspective. The Lord has plans for you, plans for happiness and not disaster. Love and mercy, great and good things will continue happening for you. Eventually you will see all these wonderful people, places, apostolates in your life and realize that what made them possible was your leaving the convent.

Prayers for you. I know what you're going through. We Christians have to be brave with everything we have to suffer in this world.

[faithcecelia]

[quote name='Lilllabettt' timestamp='1325367790' post='2360792']
So ... your experience sounds almost identical to mine - except I wasn't told I didn't have a vocation but "you're young, when your health gets better you'll have the chance to try again." At the time there was little hope of my health getting better. But lo and behold now it is and I have a lot of doubt about what to do. The door was left open a crack: do I push it open or pull it shut?

If you have certainty about what your calling is - or rather, what it isn't - then trust me that is something to be grateful for. A slammed door can be a mercy, even if it seems cruel on its face.

I would like to tell you that time heals all wounds - but that is in large part a load of garbage. Some memories will always be sad, some thing are too painful to every "get over."

What time does do is give us a new perspective. The Lord has plans for you, plans for happiness and not disaster. Love and mercy, great and good things will continue happening for you. Eventually you will see all these wonderful people, places, apostolates in your life and realize that what made them possible was your leaving the convent.

Prayers for you. I know what you're going through. We Christians have to be brave with everything we have to suffer in this world.
[/quote]

Goodness, yes, I can agree with most of this!

Health played a part in my departure too, specifically suspected (later never found or diagnosed) mental illness. When I was sent away I was told yes, you have a vocation and yes, we want you here...but not yet. I clung to that for 18mths before I realised that they had no intention of allowing me back (although the prioress herself would, hence the crack she was keeping open) and that even if they suddenly did decide to allow me to return, I no longer trusted them enough to want to be a part of that community again. So I can see that while a slammed door must be agony at the time, I would, 2 and a bit years on, have much preferred it.

But again, good has come from this whole situation. I have had counselling and CBT which has helped me unlearn my reactions - reactions that I had learned as we all do from my mother, but my mother [i]is[/i] mentally ill and does [i]not[/i] behave acceptably all the time. I have learned to know and love myself more.

I have also been able to explore my faith more. My faith has always been deep and solid, and when I became Catholic I spent a lot of time studying the catechism to be sure, so that wasn't my worry. But I had not been able to explore the styles of worship available to us fully. I loved my lively, charismatic parish and it seemed that I would thrive in a liberal, progressive Carmel. In many ways I did, but there were also things that made me wince. Since being out I have recognised that my old, charismatic parish is not at all liberal - its actually very traditional in its faith and worship, but expresses it with charismatic music etc. My old community are more liberal than my old parish, but on first glance you'd never guess due to the formality of processions into choir, etc.

I now attend (for 2 more days!) a VERY traditional parish. I have been able to get to know the Traditional Latin Mass which I love, and be a part of the new Ordinariate. I have been able to look for similar traditional 'feel' in the communities I have visited and found Notting Hill, a community that I feel is moving where appropriate with the times whilst maintaining traditional worship and spirituality.

So do try to appreciate the good that has come from this experience. May I ask, how long have you been out?

[Sarah147]

Lillabet -- have you considered teaching Sister orders, like Nashville Dominicans, or the other popular teaching order?


faith -- is that you in the photo?