Have We Become Too Wimpy?

[Byzantine]

I think it was Abba Pambo whom the brothers found washing his feet. They were scandalized by it until he reminded them that God had never said anything about destroying the body or something like that.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Byzantine

[MithLuin]

St. Ignatius of Loyola thought it very important to have penances approved by a spiritual director or confessor. Someone zealously destroying his health is not exactly the best way to further God's kingdom. He was by no means opposed to doing penances, though!

[color=#333333][font=Verdana, sans-serif][size=3]"If God causes you to suffer much, it is a sign that He has great designs for you, and that He certainly intends to make you a saint. And if you wish to become a great saint, entreat Him yourself to give you much opportunity for suffering; for there is no wood better to kindle the fire of holy love than the wood of the cross, which Christ used for His own great sacrifice of boundless charity."[/size][/font][/color]

I do agree that in modern society we are [i]very[/i] complacent and comfort-loving. Jesus' question to the apostles in the Garden ('Could you not stay awake one hour?') hits home sometimes. The lukewarm are asleep on the watch, and that's not a good thing either. Willingly doing penance as reparation for past sin is something we could do with more of. I don't think that means bringing back forms of physical mortification that have 'gone out of style', but rather a conversion of heart where we recognize the importance of this.

Tylenol is cheap and readily available; it's really not a big deal to just take it. But when we are sick and feeling miserable...learning not to complain would be a good start!

Taking care of young children teaches you a lot about authentic mortification. You have to put their needs above your own and make sacrifices, because even though you are sick, they still need to be fed, etc.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='MithLuin' timestamp='1325187259' post='2359446']
Tylenol is cheap and readily available; it's really not a big deal to just take it. But when we are sick and feeling miserable...learning not to complain would be a good start!
[/quote]

It can be a big deal sometimes... every medication has side effects. For one, headaches can be a symptom of something more serious, and pain medication could numb you to other pain symptoms, so taking it too readily could be a mistake. Plus, overuse of some pain drugs can cause kidney failure (ibuprofen and naproxin are mentioned [url="http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/understanding-kidney-disease-basic-information?page=2"]here[/url]). Another specific instance is traveling to high altitudes: taking pain medication may prevent you from feeling high altitude illness coming on.

Hence the reason I don't take meds for a mild headache caused by allergies, humidity, a slight hangover... in the last case, I probably deserve the headache, and otherwise it doesn't seem necessary to put meds in my body for tolerable pain. Plus, it helps to ensure a smaller dose is more effective when real pain comes along.

Edited January 2, 2012 by LouisvilleFan

[BarbTherese]

[quote]St. Ignatius of Loyola thought it very important to have penances approved by a spiritual director or confessor.[/quote]

For penances that are chosen and self inflicted, I think that it is important that it be first subject to direction lifting it out of the self chosen into a higher realm of obedience and God's Will as expressed through one's director. The director will look at motivation for what one desires to choose. I dont think it is necessary to make a vow of obedience to one's director to take this course, although well to inform one's director that one does intend to take up the advice and why and listen and respond to what one's director has to say.

In the ordinary day to day type discomforts etc. which can come about through Divine Providence, I think in this instances it depends on the situation. As example only - If I have something important I need to complete and a headache is going to possibly compromise the duty in some way, then to take a headache pill would be an option, possibly even the common sense option. And common sense is the guide of all virtue (St Albert, Original and Ancient Rule of Carmel, Article 24) If there is nothing of importance on the go, then to forego the headache pill is an option and accept the headache as a hidden penance simply and quietly. I find it very hard not to complain about my woes, even though I resolve not to do so.......invariably my tongue will betray my resolve given an opportunity. This is a fault and a humbling even humiliating one and as such even a fault can be condusive to virtue along the lines of St. Therese and her Little Way. God's Divine Providence never ever abandons - Forever Faithful.

[MithLuin]

I have an extremely low threshold of pain, and even mild pain can bring on rather severe pain-induced nausea. So, I am sometimes faced with the choice of taking an advil/ibuprofen with breakfast...or collapsing at lunch time, puking my guts out and shivering uncontrollably. Needless to say, I can't do much work in that state. You'd think I'd learn by now to just take the meds and head off this unfortunate reaction, but I don't always quite figure it out in time.

That is a case where...just take the drugs, already! True, while I'm laying there feeling like I'm going to die*, I can offer it up. And maybe it's a good reminder to be thankful for my health the rest of the time. But if I were purposely boycotting a single dose of advil on occasion (this is hardly a frequent problem) just so I could 'soldier through'....and then had to leave all my duties and responsibilities to someone else while I ran off to collapse in the bathroom, that's....not very smart, and likely lacking in virtue.

For other situations, where taking the drugs is not a good idea...certainly, don't do it. I know plenty of people who have to just bear with the pain for one reason or another. If that is ever true for me some day, I honestly have no idea how I would get through it. (The only alternative I've found is to 'sleep it off', which wouldn't work for real pain.)


*remember, I mentioned above that it is only mild pain

Edited January 2, 2012 by MithLuin

[his_remnant]

I agree that there is an aversion to pain in our culture that worries me but I also see that often I don't have to look for physical pain in order to do penance. I've come to understand penance or mortification to be the letting go of something good in order to gain something greater. example: To show my love for God I will limit my facebook usage and spend that time in silence or in spiritual reading instead or I'll work without listening to music to foster interior silence so I am better prepared to pray my rosary. even though it is more passive, like said above, it is hard when you have a habit of checking your email, watching a certain show etc.

I think that we are constantly bombarded by "the world" and it's ideals and criteria that the sacrifice of being kind, compassionate and self controlled when so many are not is painful enough.

[MarysLittleFlower]

[quote name='Ice_nine' timestamp='1325106033' post='2358679']
Just a question to throw out for the room. I've begun reading the lives of the saints, and the mortifications they practice make the sacrifices we make today seem like there's a lot left to be desired. They seemed to relish in every opportunity they had for pain so that they may grow closer to Christ and nowadays we get a headache and we're all "wahh I need some tylenol."

I generally feel like we're good at making excuses at why we don't practice such strict mortifications as they did in days old. There doesn't seem to be a sufficient argument. I know I'm all over the place, but I guess my question is what makes these "old" practices (whipping yourself, extreme fasting and so on) so taboo and off-limits today? Were those saints really just a bit crazy or something?
[/quote]

it's not taboo but needs to be done only with spiritual direction, not without it otherwise it could become spiritually or physically dangerous. Also it's commonly agreed that the body should not be disfigured, etc, neither should the health be affected.

I read about some of the things the Saints did and I felt so weak afterwards, lol. I'm also one of those people who gets a headache and starts complaining.

But sometimes the hardest thing is accepting the suffering that is allowed us by God and that's a good interior mortification too... giving up our self will, and saying to God, "Your will be done".

Edited January 8, 2012 by MarysLittleFlower

[truthfinder]

I believe that St. Jean Vianney said that mortification of the the will (such as fasting and reduction in sleep) are more fearsome to the Devil than penances such as flagellation.

[BarbTherese]

There are probably many opportunities to offer physical pain without inflicting it on oneself and because these are not chosen but come along in the course of life, they are opportunties offered to us by God : headache, ingrown toenail, twisted ankle, earache, torn fingernail, tiredness etc. etc. On another plane, there is patience with the difficult person, curbing one's curiosity, not listening to gossip, curbing food intake, not refusing foods one does not like, limiting amount of time watching TV, no milk/sugar in coffee - and my favourite: doing the dishes instead of rinsing and leave the washing of them for next morning and a real penance for me....... etc.etc. I recall reading in the autobiography of St. Therese of Lisieux that if something adverse was happening in her life, she would strive not even to complain to The Lord about it. Now that one is really difficult for me! We can be people of assiduous penance and not at all 'wimpy' - very far from it in fact. And no need to inflict pain on our bodies, Temple of The Holy Spirit. We can be very sure and absolutely confident that The Lord will allow sufficient in our lives to make great saints of us and this was exampled for us by St Therese of Lisieux. It's a question of how one responds to each day - one's attitude and perspective.
One of the extraordinary things about St. Therese of Lisieux is that nothing really outstanding happened in her life (aside from the time the statue of Our Lady smiled at her in chilhood I think it was) She firmly believed God called her to sanctity and would provide the means to attain it and that was how she responded to everything in her life - with love because it came from her Lord calling her to holiness.

Edited January 12, 2012 by BarbaraTherese