Don't Start Threads Focusing On Marriage In Here.

[Sarah147]

"Nothing can be higher or better than God's Will..." Absolutely! Please see the post by Sister Marie posted earlier in this thread.


I'm tired and have to get ready for bed now, so unfortunately, I can't stick by this thread for a while.

Cherie, others, please keep the word out that we want VS or some special place for marriage talk.

[FutureCarmeliteClaire]

I am glad the odds are that I won't be kicked out of VS. That would break my heart....

[faithcecelia]

[quote name='FutureCarmeliteClaire' timestamp='1325124837' post='2358988']
I am glad the odds are that I won't be kicked out of VS. That would break my heart....
[/quote]

Claire, that was never the intention, just to highlight that if we are encouraging religious vocations at very young ages we should also be encourging discernment of marriage at the same age. I wouldnt want to lose you

Edited December 29, 2011 by faithcecelia

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='FutureCarmeliteClaire' timestamp='1325124837' post='2358988']
I am glad the odds are that I won't be kicked out of VS. That would break my heart....
[/quote]

I don't see anything in dUSt's original post or subsequent posts that said anything about kicking anyone out of VS!!!!!!!!! Why would you even think this?

All he asked, again I repeat, is that we don't START threads focusing on marriage.

[Cherie]

[quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1325123671' post='2358965']
Discussing marriage is great, but it is not the same as discerning religious life and perhaps needs to take a bit of back seat here in this forum. If it needs more attention, the another forum might be the answer
[/quote]

I suppose we must agree to disagree. I don't think VS was used to discuss the "joys of marriage" per se, but in the context of discernment. For example, a thread titled, "How did you discern you were called to marriage and not religious life (or vice versa)?" would be particularly apropos in VS.

I also think the point is that marriage DOES take a back seat in VS, and it should. So why make a point to prevent the starting of rare threads that have marriage as a topic when a) it's rare, and b) it's not the focus of VS anyway...and yet, being a vocation, is still appropriate to be here in VS.

[cmaD2006]

[quote name='JoyfulLife' timestamp='1325124297' post='2358975']
"Nothing can be higher or better than God's Will..." Absolutely! Please see the post by Sister Marie posted earlier in this thread.


I'm tired and have to get ready for bed now, so unfortunately, I can't stick by this thread for a while.

Cherie, others, please keep the word out that we want VS or some special place for marriage talk.
[/quote]

Another poster suggested splitting VS into two boards. I like that idea.

I am all supportive of those who are discerning married life. Nunsense did state it right -- it is more "natural" to go towards marriage than religious life.

I am ok with starting threads that is the pondering of both married life and religious life. Pros and cons of each. That makes perfect sense especially in discernment.

However ... I think the line was sort of crossed with the "engaged/married list." I personally felt uncomfortable with such a list. I would supposed that there is a whole huge line of pmers who would belong in such a list. And honestly this would be a large contrast against the "discerning/entered" list. That isn't the intent of VS.

JL and MT -- I applaud your decisions to discern (if not pursue) marriage as a holy vocation. I think it is wonderful. We need more holy families that produce holy men and women who will either enter into a holy marriage or enter a vocation (to priesthood, to religious life, to consecrated virginity, to consecrated hermit, to etc.).

Again I'm with dUSt on this one. Well, except I do like the split phorum idea. That would solve the problem -- and for example threads that have to do with both marriage and religious life can cross thread (i.e. be pointed to by one of the admins in the other phorum).

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='CherieMadame' timestamp='1325125888' post='2359010']
I suppose we must agree to disagree. I don't think VS was used to discuss the "joys of marriage" per se, but in the context of discernment. For example, a thread titled, "How did you discern you were called to marriage and not religious life (or vice versa)?" would be particularly apropos in VS.

I also think the point is that marriage DOES take a back seat in VS, and it should. So why make a point to prevent the starting of rare threads that have marriage as a topic when a) it's rare, and b) it's not the focus of VS anyway...and yet, being a vocation, is still appropriate to be here in VS.
[/quote]

Look, I'm happy whichever way dUSt decides because honestly, it isn't the biggest thing happening in my life right now, and I can understand that it appears to have upset a lot of people here, although I am not sure why since he hasn't forbidden them to continue existing threads or to mention marriage in other threads, just not to START threads focused on marriage. Anyway, the point for me is that marriage is NOT a Vocation in the true sense of the word in relation to the Catholic Church. It is a vocation (small l) and a very important one (a sacrament), but not a Vocation (as meant by the Church). In that sense, if dUSt intended this forum to be about Vocations and not vocations, then he has every right to choose to limit the threads started here.

I can understand that you have an interest having discerned religious life (and lived it) before and now are in the married state, but for those of us who are still discerning (or living the life, as Sr Marie does), then the focus for us is the Vocation of religious life, not marriage.

Yes, we have to agree to disagree I guess, but perhaps those who want to post more about marriage, might use the existing threads here on VS (such as the one you mentioned) instead of starting new ones. dUSt is not asking for much here.

[OnlySunshine]

[quote name='CherieMadame' timestamp='1325110925' post='2358716']
I post often in VS because I was a religious for five years and discerned religious life much longer than that. I worked extensively with the Vocation Directress of my former community. I have learned a lot while I was there and am glad to share what little knowledge I have gained with those discerning, because I love the life, do all I can to encourage it, and have been there before.

That being said, I am now a married woman. It was a vocational decision, not something I just wandered into.

I think it's general knowledge that VS is more geared toward consecrated life. But I see many benefits in discussing the topic of marriage every now and then, and that includes starting a topic on it now and then. When I was seriously discerning religious life, at one point in my discernment, the question of my attraction to marriage came up daily. It was a choice I had to make, guided by prayer, discernment, and spiritual direction. I think it would be EXTREMELY beneficial for those discerning to understand the vocation of marriage in discerning their call from God, for countless reasons.

I understand dUSt, where you are coming from, but I think the recent surge in threads in VS on marriage is simply the result of a few members taking a turn in their vocational discernment. It is by no means a permanent trend, and as someone who has been part of discerning religious life, being in religious life, then discerning marriage and becoming married, I think it is innocuous, if not very beneficial, for the VS audience.

I personally don't think Open Mic is necessarily the best place for folks to ask serious questions on marriage. RSH might be a good place, but it still might not be the right place for someone still open to religious life, yet wondering if marriage is their possible calling (a "dilemma" the majority of discerners encounter at some point.)

These are just my humble opinions.
[/quote]

Being that I am one of the ones who recently discerned out of marriage, I feel that your post hit the nail right on the head. I have been a member for a long time and have contributed many posts, but I feel like I am excluded from this particular (and favorite) sub-forum because I am no longer discerning religious life. If one posts on an already active thread about marriage, their post looks to be the one hijacking the discussion and/or it gets lost in the shuffle.

I am one of the ones that thinks that if we aren't allowed to post topics here discussing marriage, then start a sub-forum for discerning married life. I don't post serious topics about vocations in Open Mic, because, like JoyfulLife said, they tend to devolve into some weird discussion. In fact, I cannot recall one single topic I started there where it wasn't hijacked.

I may have to be a less active member now...

Edited December 29, 2011 by MaterMisericordiae

[FutureCarmeliteClaire]

[quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1325125054' post='2358993']
I don't see anything in dUSt's original post or subsequent posts that said anything about kicking anyone out of VS!!!!!!!!! Why would you even think this?

All he asked, again I repeat, is that we don't START threads focusing on marriage.
[/quote]
Did you miss the page about Faith's idea of making an age-limit on VS? That's why, and I love what you said, dUST has spoken!

[BarbTherese]

I dont know where the small "v" and the capital "V" are distinguished anywhere by The Church in connection with "vocation".
A call and vocation from God is always deserving of the very best of everything including dignity and application. It can be of course a purely personal choice to use the distinction.

Edited December 29, 2011 by BarbaraTherese

[FutureCarmeliteClaire]

[quote name='faithcecelia' timestamp='1325124958' post='2358991']
Claire, that was never the intention, just to highlight that if we are encouraging religious vocations at very young ages we should also be encourging discernment of marriage at the same age. I wouldnt want to lose you
[/quote]
I know what you mean now. I thought that you were saying that we are too young to discern, which is kind of weird... So, this makes sense now. Yes, we should be encouraging marriage at a young age as well. Presumably anyone who is old enough and mature enough to be on a public forum is old enough to use discretion and participate in appropriate discussions for their age.

[BarbTherese]

[quote name='faithcecelia' timestamp='1325124227' post='2358972']
I guess one way to think of it, if feeling disappointed that the Church considers celibacy 'a higher calling', is that marriage is held in high enough esteem within the Church as to be its own sacrament, whereas religious consecration is 'only' an extention of baptism. They are equally valid without being identical.
[/quote]

The martial state and the expression of human sexuality for procreation and mutual comfort etc. is the natural state of the human being created by God. To live in celibacy for the sake of The Kingdom is a state above nature or "supernatural" - above nature. This is why it is said to be a "higher calling". If I embrace celibacy and think that I am in any way higher or better etc. than those in the natural state God has equally created (as He creates those states above nature) my ego is getting in the way and tripping me up in a major way. God grants The Grace to live in the state above the natural state to whomsoever He May for that person's personal sanctification and to build up His Church. It is a great honour and dignity to be called by God.........anywhere or to anything!

Some religious may have once desired marriage and its joys and consolations - just as some of the married may have once desired religious life and its joys and consolations.

I have a beautiful prayer here prayed daily for our priests from the Congregation of The Clergy "Grant that they may be faithful to their commitments, zealous in their vocation and mission, CLEAR MIRRORS OF THEIR OWN IDENTITY, and living the Joy of the Gift they have received" - this prayer can apply to any vocation. God creates a particular and unique person - we have our warts and all and we are absolute unique each of us - a one-of! - and He needs and desires this particular and unique person (His one-of creation) in a certain way of life and grants all necessary to live that way of life for their own santification and to build up His Church. To God, all Glory - the very great glory and the most minute of glory.
If dUSt wants only threads commenced on religious life and priesthood in Vocation Station, fair enough. It is the term "Vocation Station" therefore that problems me in that it is limited to three vocations in The Church. But what dUSt says goes!

Edited December 29, 2011 by BarbaraTherese

[Cherie]

[quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1325126423' post='2359020']

but for those of us who are still discerning (or living the life, as Sr Marie does), then the focus for us is the Vocation of religious life, not marriage.
[/quote]

And that is, has been, and always will be the MAIN focus of VS. By a landslide. No one is proposing changing that, or making VS a place where marriage is treated on an equal footing with consecrated life.

I think the point is that some threads started with the topic of marriage in regard to discernment are fitting here, as in the example I gave. Therefore, a rule for not starting topics with the subject of marriage, while certainly not the end of the world, may not be best. It could possibly exclude a lot of valuable information for those with an authentic RELIGIOUS vocation, and aren't necessarily geared ONLY to those who are leaning toward married life.

The attraction to marriage is natural. Many of those with an authentic religious vocation do feel drawn to it even if it's not their calling. Those threads could possibly provide, at least anecdotally, some advice and information these discerners would find helpful.

I've probably commented way too much. But I really don't think there needs to be a big problem about this. "Much ado about nothing" comes to mind.

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='MaterMisericordiae' timestamp='1325126885' post='2359027']
Being that I am one of the ones who recently discerned out of marriage, I feel that your post hit the nail right on the head. I have been a member for a long time and have contributed many posts, but I feel like I am excluded from this particular (and favorite) sub-forum because I am no longer discerning religious life. If one posts on an already active thread about marriage, their post looks to be the one hijacking the discussion and/or it gets lost in the shuffle.

I am one of the ones that thinks that if we aren't allowed to post topics here discussing marriage, then start a sub-forum for discerning married life. I don't post serious topics about vocations in Open Mic, because, like JoyfulLife said, they tend to devolve into some weird discussion. In fact, I cannot recall one single topic I started there where it wasn't hijacked.

I may have to be a less active member now...
[/quote]

MM, I don't know if you edited your original post or if I just can't find it, but since it referred to me by name (I get email notifications) then I feel it appropriate for me to respond as you seem to think I have personally attacked you in some way.

I certainly would not like you to post any less MM, and I have followed your own discernment with great interest and have been encouraged by your courage and strength. I certainly did not have anyone particular in mind when I made my comments about pride, as there have been a few people on here who have started discerning religious life and ended up feeling called to marriage or another form of life instead. When I used the word 'pride', I also did not mean what you obviously understood, although I can see why it would be misunderstood because the word 'pride' can be inflammatory, as can 'higher' if not understood as intended.

In this sense, pride is the sense of self that gets hurt or offended when we are disappointed, and I meant this as a very human response to feeling that one has somehow 'failed' in some way. I know about this personally because I have experienced this sense of loss that comes from hurt pride as often as anyone else. Any time we are rejected or dismissed or ignored or marginalised, we can respond with hurt pride. That isn't the same as thinking one is better than others kind of pride. I apologise if I did not make myself clear on this point. I sometimes forget that we don't all understand the same things by the same words.

To get beyond the sense of hurt pride takes almost saint like behaviour and of course we are all called to this level of sanctity, but speaking for myself, it sometimes takes awhile to get enough distance and detachment to do so. I have probably been rejected more times in my life than most of you here (because I am so much older) and it doesn't get much easier over time, I think I just recover a little faster.

As for the whole marriage/religious life debate on here, the higher than or better than and why can't we post here, and I feel excluded etc etc etc... if we take some of the emotion out of the whole thing (as we try to do when we are rejected), then we can see that dUSt has made a very simple request, that we can agree with or disagree with but in the end, it is his decision. He asks that we do not START any threads focused on married life in the VS. But there are existing threads here already and so far he hasn't made any comment about these... so go for it until and unless he stops it there too!

Please don't stop posting altogether over something that really isn't the end of the world.

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='CherieMadame' timestamp='1325128041' post='2359056']
And that is, has been, and always will be the MAIN focus of VS. By a landslide. No one is proposing changing that, or making VS a place where marriage is treated on an equal footing with consecrated life.

I think the point is that some threads started with the topic of marriage in regard to discernment are fitting here, as in the example I gave. Therefore, a rule for not starting topics with the subject of marriage, while certainly not the end of the world, may not be best. It could possibly exclude a lot of valuable information for those with an authentic RELIGIOUS vocation, and aren't necessarily geared ONLY to those who are leaning toward married life.

The attraction to marriage is natural. Many of those with an authentic religious vocation do feel drawn to it even if it's not their calling. Those threads could possibly provide, at least anecdotally, some advice and information these discerners would find helpful.

I've probably commented way too much. But I really don't think there needs to be a big problem about this. "Much ado about nothing" comes to mind.
[/quote]

You are right, there is a very good thread about discerning marriage vs religious life already started, and maybe that would be a good place for everyone to post about this topic from now on. It will become very 'hot' and be a great place for those discerners who still aren't sure to go and get good advice about both.